<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Varun,</font><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font><div>
<font face="verdana, sans-serif">MRT, strongly depends on envelope properties and most of time Globe temperature is considered as MRT but it is not acceptable always. MRT is calculated by three different ways-</font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">-by calculating surface angle view factor</font></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">-through globe temperature</font></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">-using Rayman Model </font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">hope this is useful to you.</font></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">shivraj </font></div></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div></span><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 11:08 PM, varun kulkarni <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:seldomvarun@gmail.com">seldomvarun@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div>Alright,</div>
<div>I'll try to float my boat this way.</div>
<div>Thanks a lot :)<br><br></div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Anne Juran <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:juran@summerconsultants.com" target="_blank">juran@summerconsultants.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Are you able to claim that the operative temperature equals the air temperature based on the 4 criteria listed in Appendix C? All my LEED projects have met those criteria and GBCI accepted it. Don’t know what to tell you, though, if the criteria do not apply … sorry.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt"> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>varun kulkarni<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 06, 2011 11:18 AM<br><b>To:</b> Abushakra, Bass<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
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<div><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Comfort calculation (globe temperature)<u></u><u></u></div></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Right,<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Because if you see the formula for MRT, as the air velocity approaches to zero, MRT gets closer to globe temperature.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So MRT is equal to globe temperature, but only with zero air movement.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am still not able to figure out a way to document the MRT calculations as there is no way I would be able to measure the actual globe temperature.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p style="margin-bottom:12pt" class="MsoNormal">How am I suppose to show the PMV/PPD calculations and operative temperature calculations in LEED documentations ?<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Abushakra, Bass <<a href="mailto:abushakr@msoe.edu" target="_blank">abushakr@msoe.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Yes, MRT needs Globe Temperature.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Globe temperature requires a Globe Thermometer. Radio Shack used to carry them.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">There are no tables that could give you a Globe Temperature, because the reading depends on the specific space you’re studying.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Bass</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Bass Abushakra, Ph.D., Associate Professor</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Technical Specialty Head, Building Mechanical Systems</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Advisor, ASHRAE Student Branch</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Civil and Architectural Engineering and Construction Management Department</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Milwaukee School of Engineering</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">1025 N. Broadway, CC-41</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Milwaukee, WI 53202</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Tel: <a href="tel:414-277-4551" target="_blank">414-277-4551</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Fax: <a href="tel:414-277-7415" target="_blank">414-277-7415</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt"> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Larry Degelman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 06, 2011 9:34 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'varun kulkarni'; <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Comfort calculation (globe temperature)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">I never knew that the MRT calculation would require Globe Temp. My understanding of this is that the Globe Temperature is actually a function of Air Temp, MRT and the convection (air speed effects.) The MRT is calculable from the temperature of the surrounding surfaces. If the Op Temp calculation includes air temp, MRT, RH, and air speed, then there is no need to ever know Globe Temp. Opinions here, maybe not facts!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:10pt">===========================</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:10pt">Larry O. Degelman, PE, HBDP/BEMP</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:10pt">Professor Emeritus of Architecture</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:10pt">Texas A&M University</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:10pt"><a href="mailto:ldegelman@suddenlink.net" target="_blank">ldegelman@suddenlink.net</a></span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:10pt">==========================</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt"> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>varun kulkarni<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 06, 2011 8:18 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Comfort calculation (globe temperature)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello all,<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For EQc7.1 in LEED NC 2009, I need to provide detailed calculations for "operative temperature". <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">ASHRAE 55 appendix C gives you the formula to calculate operative temperature, but that requires mean radiant temperature. And the formula for "mean radiant temperature" requires globe temperature.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am trying to find a graph/chart/table from which I can obtain the "globe temperature" or do I even need to find globe temperature ?<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Any insights, suggestions would be appreciated.<br clear="all"><br>-- <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks and Best Regards, <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sincerely,<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Varun Kulkarni <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Note: Please do not print, unless required.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks and Best Regards,<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sincerely,<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Varun Kulkarni <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Note: Please do not print, unless required.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>
<div>Thanks and Best Regards,</div>
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<div>Sincerely,</div>
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<div>Varun Kulkarni </div>
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<div>Note: Please do not print, unless required.</div>
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