[Bldg-sim] [Equest-users] Process Equipment Power Consumption

Wed May 5 15:09:10 PDT 2010

I agree with Austin. All of these are resources for us that can be used
along with good judgment, sound engineering practices, and any available
real information. We just have to remember that we are the users and the
model is just a model.

C

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Austin Hermsen <ahermsen at enermodal.com>wrote:

> Has anyone looking at the COMNET recommendations. They are trying to
> provide a more comprehensive guide for energy modeling. They include a lot
> of recommendations on plug load density and scheduling. The recommendations
> appear to be a combination of the 90.1 users manual, ACM and their own
> recommendations.
> http://www.imt.org/comnet.html
>
> In general I think it makes more sense to consistently apply
> reasonable plug load assumptions rather than chase 25%.
>
> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Carol Gardner <cmg750 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So sorry! The user is the only one who accounts for anything.
>> DOE2/eQUEST/EnergyPlus are all just tools. The schedules found in DOE2 are
>> just *advice and suggestions.* (user beware! GIGO can happen). We the
>> modelers, and Demba, I mean you no disrespect at all, are responsible to
>> review and revise these suggestions.
>>
>> I am so outdated, I remember when we had to create each and every schedule
>> on our own in BDL. Now that would be an energy modeling competition I'd be
>> interested in IBPSA.
>>
>> Love to all,
>> Carol
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Demba Ndiaye <Demba.Ndiaye at setty.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  The schedule, with multipliers (fractions), as found in DOE-2 for
>>> example, will have in fact already accounted for both run time and
>>> diversity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _____________
>>>
>>> Demba NDIAYE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
>>> bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Carol Gardner
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 05, 2010 2:04 PM
>>> *To:* Yuvaraj Saravanan
>>> *Cc:* eQUEST Users List; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] [Equest-users] Process Equipment Power
>>> Consumption
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do not believe we are double discounting. Try this: think of when you
>>> turn your computer on and off however you do so during the day, lets say on
>>> at 9 am off at noon on at 1 pm off at 5 pm. That is your schedule. Now think
>>> of how when you walk away from your computer for any length of time and it
>>> goes into sleep mode, that's your diversity.
>>>
>>> Comments, thoughts are welcome. Is this what you were maybe getting at
>>> with the multiplier, Nick.
>>>
>>> Waiting to learn more,
>>> Carol
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Yuvaraj Saravanan <
>>> Yuvaraj.Saravanan at arup.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Carol,
>>>
>>> This question is not specific to equest. Would you apply a diversity as
>>> well as a schedule for process load? I thought by applying a schedule we are
>>> accounting for diversity. By applying a diversity and then a schedule are we
>>> not double discounting the load?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Yuvaraj
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
>>> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Carol Gardner
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:15 PM
>>> *To:* Gaurav Mehta
>>> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>>>
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Process Equipment Power Consumption
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Whenever you have an equipment, aka process, load it is proper to apply
>>> first a diversity factor, aka % on at one time, and then a schedule. Whether
>>> your building is new or existing doesn't matter. This is an Art not a
>>> Science. Experience is the primary teacher. You can always ask us old farts.
>>> We are relevant and have information that one only can get with time. Yours
>>> to chose to listen to or not.
>>>
>>> Peace out,
>>> Carol
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Gaurav Mehta <gmehta75 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Please refer to the Chapter 18, Nonresidential Cooling and Heating Load
>>> Calculations of the 2009 ASHRAE Handbook of Fundamentals.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Gaurav Mehta
>>>
>>> Stantec
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Walson, Kristy" <kristy.walson at tlc-eng.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 11:29
>>> To: <omoltay at mimtarch.com>; <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Process Equipment Power Consumption
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Omer,
>>>
>>> On recent projects, I have had to pay more attention to the process loads
>>> for the types of equipment you mentioned below.  In the past, I would just
>>> ensure that my process energy cost was 25% of the total energy cost because
>>> I knew that the types of buildings I was modeling (commercial offices,
>>> mostly) would never have an actual process load even close to 25%.
>>>
>>> However, recently I have been modeling process loads in a more exact way.
>>> What I do is I take the kW rating of the equipment, then I talk to the
>>> electrical engineer to get an idea of whether that equipment will ever run
>>> at its rated load and, if not, I apply the appropriate reduction to it based
>>> on what the electrical engineer says.
>>>
>>> Once I have this maximum energy use for process loads in the building, I
>>> then create a custom schedule for this process energy.  Sometimes I need to
>>> create more than one custom schedule based on the type of equipment in the
>>> space.  This can become very tedious if you get too far into the weeds, so I
>>> try to keep the schedules realistic, but simple and I keep the number of
>>> different custom schedules I create to a minimum.  As we all know, you can
>>> never know the actual occupancy and use schedule of a building until it is
>>> occupied for a certain period of time, so keep your assumptions simple and
>>> logical.
>>>
>>> I'd love to hear what other folks are doing if it differs from my
>>> process.
>>>
>>> Kristy Walson, PE, LEED AP
>>> Mechanical Engineer / Sustainable Design
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
>>> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of
>>> omoltay at mimtarch.com
>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:46 PM
>>> To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>>> Subject: [Equest-users] Process Equipment Power Consumption
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> One of the things that cause most trouble for us in modelling is the
>>> power
>>> consumption of equipment such as dishwashers, ovens, food warm-up
>>> equipment and so on that have varying levels of power consumption during
>>> operation (even PCs and laptops). We are sometimes using nameplate
>>> installed kW values, but deep inside we know that this is quite wrong -
>>> but we have no other more reliable source / guideline for such equipment.
>>> I would appreciate any feedbacks on how others are modelling such
>>> equipment.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Omer Moltay, LEED AP
>>> Mimta
>>>
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>>
>>
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