I agree with Austin. All of these are resources for us that can be used along with good judgment, sound engineering practices, and any available real information. We just have to remember that we are the users and the model is just a model.<br>
<br>C<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Austin Hermsen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ahermsen@enermodal.com">ahermsen@enermodal.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>Has anyone looking at the COMNET recommendations. They are trying to provide a more comprehensive guide for energy modeling. They include a lot of recommendations on plug load density and scheduling. The recommendations appear to be a combination of the 90.1 users manual, ACM and their own recommendations. </div>
<div><a href="http://www.imt.org/comnet.html" target="_blank">http://www.imt.org/comnet.html</a></div>
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<div>In general I think it makes more sense to consistently apply reasonable plug load assumptions rather than chase 25%. <br><br></div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Carol Gardner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com" target="_blank">cmg750@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">So sorry! The user is the only one who accounts for anything. DOE2/eQUEST/EnergyPlus are all just tools. The schedules found in DOE2 are just <u>advice and suggestions.</u> (user beware! GIGO can happen). We the modelers, and Demba, I mean you no disrespect at all, are responsible to review and revise these suggestions.<br>
<br>I am so outdated, I remember when we had to create each and every schedule on our own in BDL. Now that would be an energy modeling competition I'd be interested in IBPSA.<br><br>Love to all,<br><font color="#888888">Carol</font>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Demba Ndiaye <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Demba.Ndiaye@setty.com" target="_blank">Demba.Ndiaye@setty.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">The schedule, with multipliers (fractions), as found in DOE-2 for example, will have in fact already accounted for both run time and diversity.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Demba NDIAYE</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carol Gardner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 05, 2010 2:04 PM<br><b>To:</b> Yuvaraj Saravanan<br><b>Cc:</b> eQUEST Users List; <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] [Equest-users] Process Equipment Power Consumption</span></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" class="MsoNormal">I do not believe we are double discounting. Try this: think of when you turn your computer on and off however you do so during the day, lets say on at 9 am off at noon on at 1 pm off at 5 pm. That is your schedule. Now think of how when you walk away from your computer for any length of time and it goes into sleep mode, that's your diversity. <br>
<br>Comments, thoughts are welcome. Is this what you were maybe getting at with the multiplier, Nick.<br><br>Waiting to learn more,<br>Carol</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Yuvaraj Saravanan <<a href="mailto:Yuvaraj.Saravanan@arup.com" target="_blank">Yuvaraj.Saravanan@arup.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Hi Carol,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">This question is not specific to equest. Would you apply a diversity as well as a schedule for process load? I thought by applying a schedule we are accounting for diversity. By applying a diversity and then a schedule are we not double discounting the load?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Yuvaraj</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carol Gardner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:15 PM<br><b>To:</b> Gaurav Mehta<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Process Equipment Power Consumption</span></p></div></div></div>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" class="MsoNormal">Whenever you have an equipment, aka process, load it is proper to apply first a diversity factor, aka % on at one time, and then a schedule. Whether your building is new or existing doesn't matter. This is an Art not a Science. Experience is the primary teacher. You can always ask us old farts. We are relevant and have information that one only can get with time. Yours to chose to listen to or not.<br>
<br>Peace out,<br>Carol</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Gaurav Mehta <<a href="mailto:gmehta75@gmail.com" target="_blank">gmehta75@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please refer to the Chapter 18, Nonresidential Cooling and Heating Load Calculations of the 2009 ASHRAE Handbook of Fundamentals.<br><br><br>Best regards,<br><br>Gaurav Mehta<br><br>Stantec<br><br><br>
--------------------------------------------------<br>From: "Walson, Kristy" <<a href="mailto:kristy.walson@tlc-eng.com" target="_blank">kristy.walson@tlc-eng.com</a>><br>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 11:29<br>
To: <<a href="mailto:omoltay@mimtarch.com" target="_blank">omoltay@mimtarch.com</a>>; <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Process Equipment Power Consumption</p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" class="MsoNormal">Hi Omer,<br><br>On recent projects, I have had to pay more attention to the process loads for the types of equipment you mentioned below. In the past, I would just ensure that my process energy cost was 25% of the total energy cost because I knew that the types of buildings I was modeling (commercial offices, mostly) would never have an actual process load even close to 25%.<br>
<br>However, recently I have been modeling process loads in a more exact way. What I do is I take the kW rating of the equipment, then I talk to the electrical engineer to get an idea of whether that equipment will ever run at its rated load and, if not, I apply the appropriate reduction to it based on what the electrical engineer says.<br>
<br>Once I have this maximum energy use for process loads in the building, I then create a custom schedule for this process energy. Sometimes I need to create more than one custom schedule based on the type of equipment in the space. This can become very tedious if you get too far into the weeds, so I try to keep the schedules realistic, but simple and I keep the number of different custom schedules I create to a minimum. As we all know, you can never know the actual occupancy and use schedule of a building until it is occupied for a certain period of time, so keep your assumptions simple and logical.<br>
<br>I'd love to hear what other folks are doing if it differs from my process.<br><br>Kristy Walson, PE, LEED AP<br>Mechanical Engineer / Sustainable Design<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] On Behalf Of <a href="mailto:omoltay@mimtarch.com" target="_blank">omoltay@mimtarch.com</a><br>
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:46 PM<br>To: <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>Subject: [Equest-users] Process Equipment Power Consumption<br><br>Dear All,<br>
<br>One of the things that cause most trouble for us in modelling is the power<br>consumption of equipment such as dishwashers, ovens, food warm-up<br>equipment and so on that have varying levels of power consumption during<br>
operation (even PCs and laptops). We are sometimes using nameplate<br>installed kW values, but deep inside we know that this is quite wrong -<br>but we have no other more reliable source / guideline for such equipment.<br>
I would appreciate any feedbacks on how others are modelling such<br>equipment.<br><br>Thank you,<br><br>Omer Moltay, LEED AP<br>Mimta<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br>
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