[TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS-users Digest, Vol 77, Issue 60

Hermann Schranzhofer hermann.schranzhofer at tugraz.at
Thu May 19 05:33:03 PDT 2011

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Dear Jiang,

the main reason for your troubles is the groundfloor in zone 1ST_L. There is a small surface overlapping with the big one. I removed this and it works. But you have a lot of wrong adjacent walls and also the window in the ceiling of zone 5TH_L is wrong. So I did some more changes to your model. I do not know if everything is correct.
My advise working with sketchup and TRNBUILD: Do not draw the whole model and try to import it at last. Always work step by step. Draw the first zone, try to import it check it and if everything is ok do the next zone. Save often import often and keep all steps in seperat files.
Additionally, Be aware that all zones xxx_L are not convex. Thus you will be not able to use the detailed radiaiton model for these zones.

Hope it works.

Best regards,
Hermann Schranzhofer.

_______________________________________________________________

DI Dr. mont. Hermann Schranzhofer
Institut fuer Waermetechnik / Institute of Thermal Engineering
TU Graz / Graz University of Technology
Inffeldgasse 25 / B, A-8010 Graz

Tel.: +43 316 873 7314
mobil: +43 664 60 873 7314
Fax : +43 316 873 7305
http://www.iwt.tugraz.at/
_______________________________________________________________

________________________________

Von: trnsys-users-bounces at cae.wisc.edu [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces at cae.wisc.edu] Im Auftrag von Jay Zhu
Gesendet: Dienstag, 17. Mai 2011 21:49
An: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
Betreff: Re: [TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS-users Digest, Vol 77, Issue 60

Dear ALL:
I spent one whole day to draw the building in the google sketchup in order to create the IDF file. but i can not input to the simulation studio when i use the trnsys muti-zone option. If any one can tell the reason, i really appreciate it.I really don't wanna waste another whole day to redo it ! Thank you so much much!!
And the IDF file is attached.
waiting for your reply!

And by the way, i found a err for the newest version of simulation studio. when i input the trnsys 3d using the IDF, i found the capacitance is set 0 automatically while the old version 17.000007 works well.

Best Regards!

Jiang

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:20 AM, <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: thermosyphon sdwh (keilholz, werner)
2. email (Adwit Kashyap)
3. query regarding runtime error (Adwit Kashyap)
4. Re: Error: generating shading/insolation matrix (Marion Hiller)
5. Type553 collector performance question (Nicholas LaHam)
6. Validated (unglazed, or any other...) collector type (Philip Horn)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "keilholz, werner" <werner.keilholz at cstb.fr>
To: "Enmisagh at aol.com" <Enmisagh at aol.com>, "trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu" <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 08:59:37 +0000
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] thermosyphon sdwh

Grüss Gott to the people in Munich ! Do you know there's TRNSYS facebook group, as well as a LinkedIn group?

You could meet there an set up a local event.

De : trnsys-users-bounces at cae.wisc.edu [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces at cae.wisc.edu] De la part de Enmisagh at aol.com
Envoyé : dimanche 15 mai 2011 15:56
À : trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
Objet : [TRNSYS-users] thermosyphon sdwh

hi all

i want to model a thermosiphon sdwh . in this model the outlet temperature is 55 c . if I want to use auxiliary heater , how can I set outlet temperature?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Adwit Kashyap <kashyap.adwit235 at gmail.com>
To: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 14:56:22 +0530
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] email
kashyap.adwit235 at gmail.com

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Adwit Kashyap <kashyap.adwit235 at gmail.com>
To: trnsys-users at engr.wisc.edu
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 15:24:02 +0530
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] query regarding runtime error
hi. i am a fairly new user. i made a simple solar pv project using types 109-user for weather data, 94-a pv array, 65-d online plotter without file, an equation and a system printer. the time period was from 0 to 8670 hours.
on running the simulation, it shows zero simulation time and the output file shows only one row of values, all zeroes.

also, when i save it in C:>Program Files (x86)>Trnsys>MyProjects, it is not visible in the folder, but is visible when u use the File>Open option in Trnsys Studio and go to the location.
i tried saving the project in a different drive and then it got saved.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Marion Hiller" <hiller at transsolar.com>
To: "joke.d" <joke.d at vkgroup.be>
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 13:26:54 +0200
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Error: generating shading/insolation matrix
Joke,

the error message is due to too surface numbers > 999. The surface
number can't be written in the log file (artsmetiers7_shd.log) and ***
are written instead.

*** Notice at time : 0.000000
Orientation of wall SURF=***: azimuth angle= 180.00°, slope= 90.00°
Orientation of wall SURF=***: azimuth angle= 0.00°, slope= 0.00°

In order to see why the surface numbers are so high (starting with
3993 instead of 1) I need to need the original *.idf and check the
import function.

With what version of TRNSYS17 are you working? I have in mind that we
fixed such a bug created by the import.

Kind regards,

Marion

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Joke De Beuckelaer [mailto:joke.d at vkgroup.be]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2011 08:58
An: duffy at tess-inc.com; trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
Betreff: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Error: generating shading/insolation matrix

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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Nicholas LaHam <ndlaham at gmail.com>
To: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 12:01:56 -0400
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Type553 collector performance question
Hey all,

I have a question about the Type553 Unglazed collector and how it's performance interacts when changing flowrates in two different scenarios. I was wondering if someone could help explain the trend in a practical way for me so I can explain it to my colleague.

First off, when just running a constant flowrate and constant incoming temperature as the inputs to the collector, I can see that increasing that flowrate increases the useful energy out of the collector. This makes sense and is intuitive.

Now when I use a loop instead for the same collector, (say with a pump operating at 1 GPM just as a starting point), and a perfect heat exchanger with the same incoming water temp now on the load side of the HX, I see a different trend I'm having trouble explaining to my colleague.

What is happening is that the useful energy increases like the first scenario, but only up to the flowrate that is on the load side of the HX. ex. So if I have 5 GPM on my load side, I see an increase in performance up to 5 gpm on my collector side, and then the performance begins to drop after increasing it any further.

Another way to say it is that whenever my flowrate of the collector array is greater then my load I have weakened performance. It seems that a 1:1 flow ratio on each side of the HX is the optimal method (assuming same specific heats).

Can anyway explain in a conceptual manner why there is this decrease only when using the HX? I was thinking that because the load side of the HX is the limiting flow (the one that isn't changing) then because the collector flow is higher, that not all the heat from the collector can be transfered, leaving the outlet of the HX on the collector side hotter than if the flows were balanced. Thus in turn lowering the efficiency and available energy to be collected the next time it passes through the collector.

I can actually see the source side temp coming out of the HX hotter than the incoming water when the collector flow is higher, but my colleague still thinks the energy should not drop. He believes that when increasing the flow up to a very large number over many trials, the useful energy will always rise up until it levels off asymptotically, whereas in my case, it is doing more of a bell curve and dropping off after it becomes higher than the load flowrate.

Thanks for any help.
Nick LaHam

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Philip Horn <phorn at fraunhofer.org>
To: "trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu" <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 12:23:20 -0400
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Validated (unglazed, or any other...) collector type

Dear All,

I am searching for a experimentally validated unglazed collector setting in TRNSYS (with values of Inputs, Parameters, assumptions, etc.).

I am currently working on an unglazed polymer PVT collector with rectangular flow channels (so NOT a fin-type collector.

I would like to compare my attempts with similar systems. As there are probably no "really similar" systems available, any validated solar collector model will be helpful.

Ideally with long term measurements validation.

Can someone comment on the accuracy of the default values for the collector types, e.g. is it a good enough reference to simply use a TRNSYS type out of the box?

Would some standard decks from IEA tasks work (I think they exist, right?) for my purpose?

I am currently reading about Type 132, but till now I could not find any download link (and it should be openly available if I understood correctly).

Can anyone help on that?

I am not sure about the validity of my potential results, as I do not have a prototype yet, so I try to judge how I could somewhat validate by comparison.

Your help is highly appreciated!!

Best from freezing Boston,

Philip

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