[Equest-users] Modifying Geometry

[tim]

Yep, I just gave up and rounded off distances and settled for a simplified
roof.  After all, there are even slight discrepancies between masonry
coursing dimensions & fractional feet.  Besides that, ASHRAE 90.1 G even
says this is not an attempt to model actual energy usage, but rather to
compare against the more widely used, typical systems (baseline).

 

Attached is an image of the model that equest generated after my compromises
- took about 10 minutes in the wizard - no dd editing.

 

I believe you with the vertices & the text file editing an all, but if the
point isn't even to model the "actual" energy usage, then I say why bother?
I can make a pretty accurate looking model in revit or sketchup or drawing
by hand for that matter if you just want to look at it, but I'm thinking of
equest as more of a tool just to get close enough to real world to get the
numbers needed to find the percent improvement over the baseline and make
the planet will be a better place to live.

 

Even equest tutorials say this is "SIMULATION" 

 

tim

 

 

From: Bishop, Bill [mailto:wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:48 PM
To: tim; Sami, Vikram
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry

 

Tim,

Thanks. Yes, eQuest. You do as much as you can in the Wizard. I find I often
have to modify roof surfaces in DD edit mode. I will usually create a new
roof polygon by copying the polygon of a trouble roof surface, change the
coordinates in the .inp file (unless it is a simple rectangle - I find the
program is glitchy when you try to modify coordinates in a spreadsheet in DD
edit mode) and save it, then reopen the eQuest model and assign the new roof
polygon to the roof surface. Lather, rinse, repeat. Save often.

 

Vikram,

"Couldn't help notice - you seem to have the roof modeled as a wall (vertex
input) rather than a roof (top of space). Is it simpler to do it that way?"

Modeling a sloped roof is a judgment call. You have to decide if the added
complexity will give you a significantly better model, or if the visual
"wow" factor is worth it for impressing your clients. The wizard does a
decent job at sloped roofs for simple building geometries. As far as walls
vs. roofs, it seems to me that eQuest models them the same, except for the
angle. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) After all, you add both
walls and roofs in DD edit mode by creating a new "Exterior Wall". If the
building geometry is such that you can simply select "top" for the surface
location (such as the one roof surface on the first floor of my example),
then of course that is easier.

 

Bill

 

  _____  

From: tim [mailto:tim.jgrier at fuse.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:18 PM
To: Bishop, Bill
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry

 

Wow Bill - that is cool - thanks for that.  Not sure I will be that adept
after my 7000 square foot project, but it's good to know the capabilities.
This building was generated in equest?  I did find where you can change the
pitch of the roof by degrees!  

 

I have never use revit with equest btw - I was just reacting bitterly to my
first go at trying to use that interface.  I tried to customize zones and
came up with some crazy thing that looked like a tree house for monkeys.

 

Thanks for helping me believe.

 

Tim

 

 

 

 

From: Bishop, Bill [mailto:wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:00 PM
To: tim
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry

 

Tim,

 

Yes, you can do complex roofs if you work at it and nobody reminds you that
you're working on a deadline. (See attached.) Ditto Carol's Revit comment
and Lan's simpler-is-better-to-a-point advice.

 

Regards,

Bill

 

William Bishop, PE, BEMP, LEEDR AP | Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP

Mechanical Engineer

 

134 South Fitzhugh Street
Rochester, NY 14608
T: (585) 325-6004 Ext. 114
F: (585) 325-6005

wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com

www.pathfinder-ea.com

P Sustainability - less is more.

  _____  

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Li, Lan
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:42 PM
To: tim; Carol Gardner
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry

 

Tim, 

 

I think eQuest is an energy modeling program and we are more concerned in
BTU/ton terms - or $$ at the end. If the roof was built somewhat differently
by modeler as it was shown on architectural drawings, my question is only
how much it will affect the energy usage. If it is a minor, I won't drive
myself crazy to make them same.  If you read Ashare 90-1, simplify building
geometry for energy simulation purpose is allowed. Also when we model a
building, we can have tons of inputs and lots of assumptions are made either
by us or by the program itself, I think majority of them can have a bigger
impact on our goal than build a prefect roof/building shell. I might be one
of the lazy modelers. Hope you can enjoy eQuest a little bit more. 

 

Thanks!

 

Lan

 

Lan Li, PE

Mechanical Engineer

Scheeser Buckley Mayfield LLC                                     

1540 Corporate Woods Parkway

Uniontown, OH 44685

Phone: (330) 896-4664 ext. 123

Cell: (330) 904-6292

Fax: (330) 896-9180

 <mailto:lli at sbmce.com> lli at sbmce.com

www.sbmce.com <http://www.sbmce.com/> 

 

Columbus Branch Office (614) 448-1498

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Thank you

  _____  

From: tim [mailto:tim.jgrier at fuse.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:29 PM
To: 'Carol Gardner'
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry

 

If you're complimenting me on my observation, my awareness must be at an
all-time high today.

 

How about a complex roof shape like the one attached?  Notice ridge lines
don't match and there is a gable at the porch end as well as the building
end.

 

Can equest do that too?  As long as one would put in the training time of
course.

 

Tim

 

 

From: Carol Gardner [mailto:cmg750 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:01 PM
To: tim
Cc: Omar Katanani; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry

 

Well, at least your powers of observation aren't suffering.

Yes, you can model individual ceiling heights per room. You can do almost
anything once you take the time to learn how. What are the specifics of what
you want to do: model a room with two different ceiling heights or model a
bunch of rooms with one height and a bunch with another height? A picture
would be great if ya have one.

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:56 AM, tim <tim.jgrier at fuse.net> wrote:

Wow - I think I struck a nerve.

 

On a related note.

Does equest have a way to model individual ceiling heights per room?

 

Thanks,

Tim

 

 

From: Carol Gardner [mailto:cmg750 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:43 PM
To: tim
Cc: Omar Katanani; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org


Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry

 

I have got to protest this one, sorry Tim. 


Buying a Revit license to be able to accurately model geometry in eQUEST is,
to be blunt, crazy. It's really pretty easy to revise your geometry and if
you can't do that using one of the 3 methods I provided earlier, you need to
figure out how to train yourself better or leave the field. It's not just a
matter of being able to use eQUEST at this point, it's a matter of being
able to generate an accurate model using any tool. Being able to import CAD
or Revit data into energy models is a recent development. Frankly, I
question it's utility, especially if people now think they have to use it or
they can't model a building. Friendly front ends like eQUEST, DesignBuilder,
etc., are great but you need to know how a building operates and how the
systems work or it's just GIGO. 

Carol

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:29 AM, tim <tim.jgrier at fuse.net> wrote:

Omar

I haven't had much luck with customizing spaces either.  

I think there is a way to import a revit model file into equest.  If I
needed complicated zones & spatial geometry, I would probably consider a
revit license, but with that come's more money ($4-$6k for 1 standalone
license) and possibly more training, but might save a whole lot of headache.

 

Seems like equest is more of an energy modeler than an accurate building
modeler.

 

tim  

 

 

 

From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Omar
Katanani
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 10:46 AM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] Modifying Geometry

 

 

Dear all,

Once again, another problem!

I have several spaces which were geometrically modified in the design. For
example, a room that was split into two different ones; with each room being
a different hvac zone. How can I possibly split a room into two zones "1"
and "2"? Shall I modify the geometry of the old zone to be that of zone "1",
and then add another zone "2" from scratch? If this is what should be done,
how can I do this accurately?

Attached is the polygon view of one of my floors. When you look at them in
2-D or 3-D views, the building seems perfect in shape. Notice the rectangle
to the left of the picture! This is actually a zone that lies inside the
building. But it appears like this in polygon view. I think it is some
problem of coordinate references or so!
So when I need to modify the geometry according to coordinates of vertices,
I'm suffering!

Many thanks!
Omar

___________________________

Omar Katanani
Sustainable Design Engineer
Email: omar at ecoconsulting.net


EcoConsulting (Lebanon)
Nahas Building, 4th floor
4 St-Maron Street / Georges Haddad Avenue
Postal Code: 2028 5806 SAIFI
Beirut, Lebanon
Tel:       +961 (0) 1 971 255
Mobile:    +961 (0) 3 045 045


EcoConsulting (UK) Ltd
28 Marshalsea Road
London, SE1 1HF
Tel: +44 (0)207 939 0989
Fax: +44 (0)207 939 0981
Website: www.ecoconsulting.net


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-- 
Carol Gardner PE




-- 
Carol Gardner PE

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