<div dir="ltr">Thanks Marion for this important information.<div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 17 janv. 2023 à 09:16, Marion Hiller <<a href="mailto:Hiller@transsolar.com">Hiller@transsolar.com</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg-7517906796678839882">
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Loïc,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Please be aware that it isn’t enough to delete surfaces between airnodes in order to generate a radiative zone.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Airnodes have to be moved in TRNBuild into one zone. ( see details in the building model manual. )<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I highly recommend to include virtual surfaces in SketchUp rather than deleting surfaces.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Otherwise the volume calculation give wrong numbers if you export your model from TRNBuild to SketchUp and reimport it into TRNBuild.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">For the calculation arinodes have to be closed volumes!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Kind regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Marion<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(166,166,166)">Transsolar Software Team<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,114,196)"><a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank">hotline@transsolar.com</a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(166,166,166)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(166,166,166)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(166,166,166)">Transsolar
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(166,166,166)">Stuttgart | Munich | Paris | New York<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(166,166,166)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(166,166,166)">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH | Curiestrasse 2 | 70563 Stuttgart | Germany<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(166,166,166)">CEO: Matthias Schuler, Thomas Auer, Stefan Holst, Dieter Schnelle
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(166,166,166)">Registered at Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 23347 | USt-IdNr.: DE 152272639<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Von:</b> TRNSYS-users <<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Loic Tachon via TRNSYS-users<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 16. Januar 2023 19:02<br>
<b>An:</b> David BRADLEY <<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Loic Tachon <<a href="mailto:dr.loic.tachon@gmail.com" target="_blank">dr.loic.tachon@gmail.com</a>>; TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org <<a href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Cross flow ventilation<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks a lot for your reply.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Le lun. 16 janv. 2023 à 17:58, David BRADLEY <<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>> a écrit :<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p>Loïc,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p> Sorry for misinterpreting your question. I think you do need to delete the adjacent surfaces and get one large radiation zone that includes your stack of airnodes. Then you use the "coupling between airnodes" popup to define the rate at which air moves
from one of the air nodes to the other.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p> If you drew your building in SketchUp you can draw in the adjacent surfaces between the airnodes and assign them as the "virtual surface" category option (sorry I can't check the exact language of the option; my SketchUp install is giving me problems right
now and I can't launch it to check). In any case if those "adjacent" surfaces are set as virtual then they won't be brought into the TRNBuild model and thus you won't have to delete them manually but will still have the integrity of the airnodes.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>kind regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p> David<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/13/2023 11:27 AM, Loic Tachon wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the answer, in my case I know the ventilation cross flow induced by the stack effect and I suppose that this flow cross all the zone. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Do I need to delete the horizontal air nodes adjacent surface (surface inside the radiation zone) to get just one radiation zone ? <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If we know the flow between airnodes, is it better to put it via coupling between zones pop up ? <br>
<img border="0" width="542" height="320" style="width: 5.6458in; height: 3.3333in;" id="m_-7517906796678839882Bild_x0020_1" src="cid:185beeb32534cff311"><br>
or through surface definition, adjacent coupling air flow (if the adjacent surfaces are not deleted) ? <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="496" height="129" style="width: 5.1666in; height: 1.3437in;" id="m_-7517906796678839882Bild_x0020_2" src="cid:185beeb32535b16b22"><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks a lot.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Le ven. 13 janv. 2023 à 16:56, David BRADLEY <<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>> a écrit :<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p>Loïc,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p> The best way to address airflow within a building is to couple your Type56 simulation either with TRNFlow or CONTAM (Type97). The basic idea is that you build a parallel model to your Type56 containing information about the airflow openings between the
airnodes (a radiation zone can contain multiple airnodes, especially where there is an atrium like you have described). TRNFlow or CONTAM then take the air node temperatures as well as the wind speed and geometry of the building and determine the amount of
air flow that results between the air nodes. Large horizontal openings are challenging because both TRNFlow and CONTAM treat air flow through a horizontal opening as unidirectional. Still, it is by far the most rigorous way of treating the situation.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>kind regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p> David<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/13/2023 8:29 AM, Loic Tachon via TRNSYS-users wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Trnsys community, <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I want to simulate the stack effect in a high room with high thermal gain.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For this, I have 1 zone and 5 thermal air nodes in the z direction to get the temperature at several heights. <br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">How can I do this and avoid that TRNSYS see ceiling between the zone ? Do I need to delete the horizontal surface for zone 2-3-4 ? Or do I put mass less horizontal surface ?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As Well, how do I do the cross flow ventilation ? Do I use the couple mass flow between zones ?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="542" height="323" style="width: 5.6458in; height: 3.3645in;" id="m_-7517906796678839882Bild_x0020_4" src="cid:185beeb32537745b44"><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> or I put a coupling air flow (same that natural ventilation mass flow) for the horizontal surface ?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="503" height="137" style="width: 5.2395in; height: 1.427in;" id="m_-7517906796678839882Bild_x0020_5" src="cid:185beeb3253855d355"><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks a lot. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:black">Dr. Loïc Tachon </span></b>
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:black">(+33) 6 7440-0536 (France)</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>TRNSYS-users mailing list<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
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<pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>***************************<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>David BRADLEY<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Principal<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Thermal Energy System Specialists, LLC<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>3 North Pinckney Street - suite 202<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Madison, WI 53703 USA<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>P:+1.608.274.2577<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.tess-inc.com" target="_blank">http://www.tess-inc.com</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.trnsys.com" target="_blank">http://www.trnsys.com</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
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<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:black">Dr. Loïc Tachon </span></b>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:black">(+33) 6 7440-0536 (France)</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>***************************<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>David BRADLEY<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Principal<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Thermal Energy System Specialists, LLC<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>3 North Pinckney Street - suite 202<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Madison, WI 53703 USA<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>P:+1.608.274.2577<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.tess-inc.com" target="_blank">http://www.tess-inc.com</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.trnsys.com" target="_blank">http://www.trnsys.com</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:black">Dr. Loïc Tachon </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:black">(+33) 6 7440-0536 (France)</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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</div></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:12.8px" color="#000000"><b>Dr. Loïc Tachon </b></font><div style="font-size:12.8px"><div><font color="#000000">(+33) 6 7440-0536 (France)</font></div><div><br></div></div><div><font color="#e69138"><b><br></b></font></div></div></div>