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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear Karol,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">You almost there:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In the middle sketch the vertical yellow line is wrong and should be deleted.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In addition , I recommend to change the coloring scheme such that it is more intuitive:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">yellow for short ware solar (“the sun is yellow”)<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">read for longwave
<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Marion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">P.S.: Do you have the feeling that it would be good to add this to the manual too?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">+49 711 679 76 32 |
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4472C4"><a href="mailto:hiller@transsolar.com"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#4472C4">hiller@transsolar.com</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Transsolar
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#767171"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Stuttgart | Munich | Paris | New York<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH | Curiestrasse 2 | 70563 Stuttgart | Germany<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">CEO: Matthias Schuler, Thomas Auer, Stefan Holst, Dieter Schnelle
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Registered at Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 23347 | USt-IdNr.: DE 152272639<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Von:</b> Karol BANDURSKI <karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl> <br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Donnerstag, 6. Mai 2021 10:28<br>
<b>An:</b> Marion Hiller <Hiller@Transsolar.com>; 'TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org' <trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'David BRADLEY' <d.bradley@tess-inc.com><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> RE: [TRNSYS-users] VirtualSurface<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Dear Marion,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Thank you for your expert feedback, I have corrected my sketch (enclosed), could you write me if now it is ok?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Kind regards,<br>
Karol<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Marion Hiller [<a href="mailto:Hiller@Transsolar.com">mailto:Hiller@Transsolar.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 3, 2021 9:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuildi</span><span lang="PL">ng.org <<a href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org">trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David BRADLEY <<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>>; Karol BANDURSKI <<a href="mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl">karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> AW: [TRNSYS-users] VirtualSurface<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Karol,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">General information on virtual surfaces:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span lang="EN-US">The reason for adding a virtual surface is that the volume of an airnode has to be closed with respect to geometry such that the volume of the airnode can be calculated.
<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span lang="EN-US">A virtual surface is not part of the thermal model of Type 56 <br>
-> no heat transfer, no interaction with shortwave and longwave radiation<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span lang="EN-US">Solar radiation is distribution to
<span style="color:#7030A0">all surfaces of all airnodes of thermal zone <br>
</span>(Note: virtual surfaces aren’t considered as they are not part of the thermal model)<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span lang="EN-US">longwave radiation is distributed to and exchanged with<br>
a) <span style="color:red">all surfaces of an airnode </span>if the <span style="color:red">
longwave radiation mode = standard </span><br>
b) <span style="color:#0070C0">all surfaces of all airnodes of thermal zone </span>
if the <span style="color:#0070C0">longwave radiation mode = detailed<br>
</span>(Note: virtual surfaces aren’t considered as they are not part of the thermal model)<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thus, your sketch lacks the distinction regarding the longwave radiation mode.<br>
The sketch on the right for one zone with two airnodes is correct for <span style="color:#0070C0">
longwave radiation mode = detailed </span>only.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Marion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">+49 711 679 76 32 |
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4472C4"><a href="mailto:hiller@transsolar.com"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#4472C4">hiller@transsolar.com</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Transsolar
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#767171"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Stuttgart | Munich | Paris | New York<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH | Curiestrasse 2 | 70563 Stuttgart | Germany<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">CEO: Matthias Schuler, Thomas Auer, Stefan Holst, Dieter Schnelle
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Registered at Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 23347 | USt-IdNr.: DE 152272639<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Von:</b> TRNSYS-users <<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>David BRADLEY via TRNSYS-users<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 30. April 2021 18:23<br>
<b>An:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org <<a href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org">trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David BRADLEY <<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>>; Karol BANDURSKI <<a href="mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl">karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl</a>><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] VirtualSurface<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Karol,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> I think your picture is correct. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p> The process for setting it up can be a little confusing. My understanding of how to set up the second case is to draw both Zone1 and Zone2 separated by a VirtualSurface in Trnsys3d. I assume there is some way of doing the same in TRNLizard but I'm afraid
I'm not familiar with that tool. Once you import the *.idf file into TRNBuild, the virtual surface will disappear. You then add Zone2 to Zone1 so that they become two airnodes of a single zone. To do this, you open the zone/airnode that you're going to move
and you click on the button in the upper left corner that looks like a u-shaped arrow.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> Since the virtual surface that separates the two airnode has disappeared you no longer have an adjacent surface through which to define the air flow coupling. Instead, you click on the "coupling" button in the airnode window (upper right) and define the
coupling there.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> David<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 04/30/2021 08:01, Karol BANDURSKI via TRNSYS-users wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Expert,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have tackled this topic a few times but I am still not sure if I understand the idea of Virtual Surface.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Could you write me if enclosed sketch properly describe heat exchange in the zone in the context of Virtual surface?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Karol<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">--------------------------------------------------------------------</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Karol BANDURSKI Ph.D.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN" style="color:black">Faculty of Environmental and Energy Engineering</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Division of Heating, Air Conditioning and Air Protection</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Poznan University of Technology</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="PL" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://www.put.poznan.pl/~karol.bandurski" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:blue">www.put.poznan.pl/~karol.
bandurski</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="PL"><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karol_Bandurski"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:blue">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karol_Bandurski</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">TRNSYS-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org">TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">***************************<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">David BRADLEY<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Principal<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">3 North Pinckney Street - suite 202<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Madison, WI 53703 USA<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">P:+1.608.274.2577<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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