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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Dear Marion,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>1) Thank you very much (enclosed)!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>2) Yes – I think there is need to present it in the manual (you cen use my editable sketch) and to comment possibilities, their advantages and disadvantages, of air nodes connections: VirtualSurface, Air Window… It could be used in inddor (e.g. atrimu) and outdoor (e.g. street canyon) envirnemnt modeling.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Karol<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=PL>From:</span></b><span lang=PL> Marion Hiller [mailto:Hiller@Transsolar.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 6, 2021 10:37 AM<br><b>To:</b> Karol BANDURSKI <karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl>; 'TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org' <trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org><br><b>Cc:</b> 'David BRADLEY' <d.bradley@tess-inc.com><br><b>Subject:</b> AW: [TRNSYS-users] VirtualSurface<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE>Dear Karol,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>You almost there:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>In the middle sketch the vertical yellow line is wrong and should be deleted.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>In addition , I recommend to change the coloring scheme such that it is more intuitive:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>yellow for short ware solar (“the sun is yellow”)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>read for longwave <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Marion<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>P.S.: Do you have the feeling that it would be good to add this to the manual too?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>+49 711 679 76 32 | </span><span lang=DE style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4472C4'><a href="mailto:hiller@transsolar.com"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4472C4'>hiller@transsolar.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>Transsolar </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#767171'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>Stuttgart | Munich | Paris | New York<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH | Curiestrasse 2 | 70563 Stuttgart | Germany<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>CEO: Matthias Schuler, Thomas Auer, Stefan Holst, Dieter Schnelle <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>Registered at Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 23347 | USt-IdNr.: DE 152272639<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=DE>Von:</span></b><span lang=DE> Karol BANDURSKI <<a href="mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl">karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl</a>> <br><b>Gesendet:</b> Donnerstag, 6. Mai 2021 10:28<br><b>An:</b> Marion Hiller <<a href="mailto:Hiller@Transsolar.com">Hiller@Transsolar.com</a>>; 'TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org' <<a href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org">trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> 'David BRADLEY' <<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>><br><b>Betreff:</b> RE: [TRNSYS-users] VirtualSurface<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Dear Marion,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thank you for your expert feedback, I have corrected my sketch (enclosed), could you write me if now it is ok?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Kind regards,<br>Karol<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Marion Hiller [<a href="mailto:Hiller@Transsolar.com">mailto:Hiller@Transsolar.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 3, 2021 9:13 AM<br><b>To:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuildi<span lang=PL>ng.org <<a href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org">trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> David BRADLEY <<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>>; Karol BANDURSKI <<a href="mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl">karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> AW: [TRNSYS-users] VirtualSurface<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE>Karol,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>General information on virtual surfaces:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>The reason for adding a virtual surface is that the volume of an airnode has to be closed with respect to geometry such that the volume of the airnode can be calculated. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>A virtual surface is not part of the thermal model of Type 56 <br>-> no heat transfer, no interaction with shortwave and longwave radiation<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>Solar radiation is distribution to <span style='color:#7030A0'>all surfaces of all airnodes of thermal zone <br></span>(Note: virtual surfaces aren’t considered as they are not part of the thermal model)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>longwave radiation is distributed to and exchanged with<br>a) <span style='color:red'>all surfaces of an airnode </span>if the <span style='color:red'>longwave radiation mode = standard </span><br>b) <span style='color:#0070C0'>all surfaces of all airnodes of thermal zone </span>if the <span style='color:#0070C0'>longwave radiation mode = detailed<br></span>(Note: virtual surfaces aren’t considered as they are not part of the thermal model)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thus, your sketch lacks the distinction regarding the longwave radiation mode.<br>The sketch on the right for one zone with two airnodes is correct for <span style='color:#0070C0'>longwave radiation mode = detailed </span>only.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Marion<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>+49 711 679 76 32 | </span><span lang=DE style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4472C4'><a href="mailto:hiller@transsolar.com"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4472C4'>hiller@transsolar.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>Transsolar </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#767171'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>Stuttgart | Munich | Paris | New York<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH | Curiestrasse 2 | 70563 Stuttgart | Germany<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>CEO: Matthias Schuler, Thomas Auer, Stefan Holst, Dieter Schnelle <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6'>Registered at Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 23347 | USt-IdNr.: DE 152272639<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=DE>Von:</span></b><span lang=DE> TRNSYS-users <<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>> <b>Im Auftrag von </b>David BRADLEY via TRNSYS-users<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 30. April 2021 18:23<br><b>An:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org <<a href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org">trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> David BRADLEY <<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>>; Karol BANDURSKI <<a href="mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl">karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl</a>><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] VirtualSurface<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span lang=DE>Karol,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=DE> I think your picture is correct. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=DE> The process for setting it up can be a little confusing. My understanding of how to set up the second case is to draw both Zone1 and Zone2 separated by a VirtualSurface in Trnsys3d. I assume there is some way of doing the same in TRNLizard but I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that tool. Once you import the *.idf file into TRNBuild, the virtual surface will disappear. You then add Zone2 to Zone1 so that they become two airnodes of a single zone. To do this, you open the zone/airnode that you're going to move and you click on the button in the upper left corner that looks like a u-shaped arrow.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=DE> Since the virtual surface that separates the two airnode has disappeared you no longer have an adjacent surface through which to define the air flow coupling. Instead, you click on the "coupling" button in the airnode window (upper right) and define the coupling there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=DE>best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=DE> David<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE>On 04/30/2021 08:01, Karol BANDURSKI via TRNSYS-users wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE>Dear Expert,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE>I have tackled this topic a few times but I am still not sure if I understand the idea of Virtual Surface.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE>Could you write me if enclosed sketch properly describe heat exchange in the zone in the context of Virtual surface?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE>Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE>Karol<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>--------------------------------------------------------------------</span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Karol BANDURSKI Ph.D.</span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN style='color:black'>Faculty of Environmental and Energy Engineering</span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Division of Heating, Air Conditioning and Air Protection</span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Poznan University of Technology</span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=PL style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><a href="http://www.put.poznan.pl/~karol.bandurski" target="_blank"><span lang=EN-US style='color:blue'>www.put.poznan.pl/~karol. bandurski</span></a></span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PL><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karol_Bandurski"><span lang=EN-US style='color:blue'>https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karol_Bandurski</span></a></span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>TRNSYS-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org">TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre></blockquote><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>***************************<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>David BRADLEY<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Principal<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>3 North Pinckney Street - suite 202<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Madison, WI 53703 USA<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>P:+1.608.274.2577<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></body></html>