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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Wirich,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">in general, matching simulation with measured data is a really challenge task.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">One reason is that doing good measurements especially on larger spaces is difficult (what needs to be measured, where are sensors located, are sensors working correclty, …) .<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Often measurements aren’t taken for delivering inputs for building simulation model. Important data especially for longwave radiation exchange with the environment and convection is missing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Local effects which aren’t typically modelled may be crucial for a good match.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Lately, I did a comparison between simulation results of special glazing system using the CFS model and measurements taken at an outdoor test facility.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">It turned out that for this glazing system modelling the capacity of the glazing and the heat transfer in detailed played an important role.
<br>
(http://www.ibpsa.org/proceedings/BS2019/BS2019_211101.pdf)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Without knowing anything of your test set up. I don’t think that radiation modelling is the problem. The critical path is often modelling the convective heat transfer and flow patterns good enough.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">How is the spacial temperature distribution in the glazed space? Can this be represented by a nodal model like type 56 which assumes that the air volume associated to then ode has a uniform temperature?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">We as other TRNSYS users did successful comparison between measured data of highly glazed spaces with simulation results using Type 56.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">So yes, Type 56 can be used for this. However, it is a lot of work because you need to consider all relevant heat flows adequately.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Marion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6;mso-fareast-language:DE">Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6;mso-fareast-language:DE">+49 711 679 76 32 |
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4472C4;mso-fareast-language:DE">hiller@transsolar.com</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6;mso-fareast-language:DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6;mso-fareast-language:DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6;mso-fareast-language:DE">Transsolar
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6;mso-fareast-language:DE">Stuttgart | Munich | Paris | New York<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6;mso-fareast-language:DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6;mso-fareast-language:DE">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH | Curiestrasse 2 | 70563 Stuttgart | Germany<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6;mso-fareast-language:DE">CEO: Matthias Schuler, Thomas Auer, Stefan Holst, Dieter Schnelle
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6;mso-fareast-language:DE">Registered at Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 23347 | USt-IdNr.: DE 152272639<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-fareast-language:DE">Von:</span></b><span style="mso-fareast-language:DE"> TRNSYS-users <trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Freppel, Wirich via TRNSYS-users<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 8. November 2020 19:41<br>
<b>An:</b> TRNSYS USERS (trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org) <trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Freppel, Wirich <Wirich.Freppel@saint-gobain.com><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [TRNSYS-users] Solar radiation in high glazed spaces<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR">Dear Trnsys users,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I’m trying to assess thermal comfort in a high glazed space (like a porch/veranda) with TRNSYS 18. I built a model, which geometrically corresponds to an experimental veranda we have at the lab.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I did temperature measurements in the experimental facility under solar radiation and then I compared it to the simulation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">All calculation are set in “detailed mode” to take view factors into account. As a result, air temperature is much lower in the simulation, a lot much lower. And the most surprising fact is that when I set the solar to
air factor to 1, both air temperatures match pretty well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I concluded from this result that, if I transform all the supposed radiative flux into convection, the thermal balance in the simulation is equal to the experimentation. But when I consider radiative flux from glazings,
the radiative part is missed by the simulation, resulting in a much lower air temperature in the simulation. It is like a part of radiative flux disappeared right after passing through the glazings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I only used Type 56 to model the high glazed building. Is there a better solution, like a specific type which can do solar radiation calculation in a 100% glazed building ? Or should it work fine with Type 56 only ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">(of course I can send the project if needed)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Many thanks in advance<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%;text-autospace:none"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#17428C;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Wirich FREPPEL</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#17428C;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><br>
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0D4D95;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Development engineer
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0D4D95;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">COSMOS -
</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0D4D95;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Buildings Energy Performance & Daylighting Group</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#17428C;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:9.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly;text-autospace:none">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#17428C;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Cell: +33 637 053 174<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span lang="FR" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#17428C;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Saint-Gobain Research Compiègne<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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