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<p>Vitor,</p>
<p> Check to make sure that the values you have specified as
parameters for things like the number of source temperatures -
cooling match the number of values that are actually in the data
file. I have seen this happen when I had specified (for example)
that there were 10 source temperatures in the data file when in
fact there were only eight. <br>
</p>
<p>kind regards,</p>
<p> David</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 08/18/2019 14:26, Vitor Leite via
TRNSYS-users wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CY1PR04MB22037D3934CE2964AB1B4050C4A90@CY1PR04MB2203.namprd04.prod.outlook.com">
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Sorry all for the spam, but forgot to add attach the files</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Vitor
Leite <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vitorleite95@hotmail.com"><vitorleite95@hotmail.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 18, 2019 4:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org"><trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] COP curve inconsistency
WW-HP</font>
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<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
Hello Jeff, </div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
First,<span> </span><span title="Search for suggestions"
style="margin:0px; padding:0px 1px; border-radius:2px">thanks</span> for
the answer. </div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
I isolated the heat pump into a new project, created 2
equation components representing source and load side flow
and inlet temperatures but the heat pump is still having
quite strange COP results, and I have no idea why. </div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
Here is basically what I did:</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
Timestep: 0.1h</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
Type 927 (parameters 15 to 18): </div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
rated heating capacity 177kW</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
rated power: 46kW</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
rated load/souce flowrate: 9.5 l/s</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
I attached my expected performance curve according to the
performance data from TESS library for type 927, and the
results from some of the tests I performed. </div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
The main thing that I don't understand is why, even on the
test project, there are so many scenarios that is in direct
conflict with the performance data sheet.</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
B<span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt">y reducing the load-side flowrate and
increasing the EWT for the load-side, the heating COP went
to above 5, when according to the performance curve, both
scenarios should decrease COP.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
By having load-side EWT of 20 degrees C and flowrate equal
to the rated value (9.5 l/s), the COP was near 3. By
decreasing only the flowrate, COP increased to almost 4
(again, against performance curve).</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
And last, by decreasing source-side EWT, COP increased as
well, when it should decrease.</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
Am I misunderstanding the system? Or I made a mistake even
on the test project, as well?</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
On my main project I have a storage tank added and there are
no errors during the simulation. I think my only problem is
understanding this COP curve.</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
Thank you again, </div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
Vitor L.</div>
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Jeff
Thornton <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:thornton@tess-inc.com"><thornton@tess-inc.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 5, 2019 11:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org"><trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Vitor Leite <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vitorleite95@hotmail.com"><vitorleite95@hotmail.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] COP curve inconsistency
WW-HP</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Victor,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The best thing you can do to start is to isolate the
heat pump in a separate project and drive it with various
inlet temperature and flow rates to make sure the
performance of the machine matches the map. When you’re
sure it’s working correctly that’ll help you track down
what’s happening with the rest of your project.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jeff<br>
<br>
<div id="x_x_AppleMailSignature">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 1, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Vitor Leite via TRNSYS-users
<<a href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hello everyone,</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I got the results from a simulation and I think I am
getting inconsistent results when comparing the heat
pump COP and comparing it normalized performance data
sample included with the component, which is the one I
am currently using (type 927).</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt">The system is basically two
identical heat pumps (50RT) being controlled by a
multi-stage differential controller. (which is also
controlling the flow rate for both source side and
load side pumps). So for the load side (connected to
a vertical heat exchanger) there is only really
small changes in temperature and the flow-rate goes
from 0 to 0.5 to 1 following the number of H.Ps on. </span></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt">Load side flow-rate also goes from 0
to 0.5 to 1 but there are bigger temperature changes
according to the demand.</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt">But, according to the performance
data, during heating mode, the load side flow-rate
should no change normalized capacity and if the load
side temperature increases, normalized capacity
should decrease. Which was not what happened with my
results.</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=""><font face="Calibri, Helvetica,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:12pt">Can someone with a better
understanding about H.Ps take a quick look and see
if this graph is
</span>reasonable compared to the performance curve<span
style="font-size:12pt">?</span></font></div>
<div style=""><font face="Calibri, Helvetica,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div style=""><font face="Calibri, Helvetica,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:12pt">Thanks in advance</span></font></div>
<div style=""><font face="Calibri, Helvetica,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div style=""><font face="Calibri, Helvetica,
sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt"><font
color="#000000"> </font></span></font><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><COP.jpg></div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
3 North Pinckney Street - suite 202
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a></pre>
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