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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Daniel,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In general it is not recommended to edit the b17. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">However, if you edit something manually it is mandatory to check if TRNBuild completely “understands” your changes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The following is recommended:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="color:windowtext;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Open the edited b17 file in TRNBuild
<br>
-> TRNbuild does some checking like for adjacent surfaces an equal area check and a front/back check<br>
However, TRNBuild doesn’t prompt an error in general if a syntax error exists. <br>
If TRNBuild doesn’t “understand” something it ignores it and uses a default value instead.<br>
Therefore, double check the differences by comparing the input b17 file with a saved b17 file from TRNBuild.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="color:windowtext;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In TRNBuild set the zone geometry mode to “MANUAL” because the vertices and polygons doesn’t match to the surfaces areas<br>
-> This will remove the 3D information and makes clear that there is no 3D data available.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="color:windowtext;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Remove all existing shading / insolation matrices (*.SHM and *.ISM) for these zones. They are no longer valid.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Marion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">Von:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> TRNSYS-users <trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>David BRADLEY via TRNSYS-users<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Donnerstag, 9. August 2018 18:57<br>
<b>An:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org <trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David BRADLEY <d.bradley@tess-inc.com>; Weber Daniel <webedani@student.ethz.ch><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Editing Surface Values in .b17 Building File<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Daniel,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> You are brave! I edit lots of things by hand in the *.b17 (and *.b18) file but I have never tried to touch the geometry! I think you'll be okay provided that you are not trying to generate a shading mask and providing that none of your zones use the detailed
radiation models.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>kind regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> David<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 08/08/2018 18:56, Weber Daniel via TRNSYS-users wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Dear TRNSYS users,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">I am modelling a multizone 3D building with Type 56 and tried my luck with directly editing the .b17 building file. I have adjusted surface areas of walls, windows and roofs
as well as changed wall types from external to adjacent with their corresponding surfaces.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">It works fine as the simulation runs smoothly, but I am wondering about the last part of the building file where it says "_EXTENSION_BuildingGeometry_START_". It seems that
all vertex points of each wall, window and roof are stored here. As I edited surface areas of walls but not their vertex points in that file, the vertex points resulting area isn't the same as the changed area of the walls.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Is that somehow going to affect my simulation in any way? For what part of the simulation are the vertex points necessary? Is it not advised to edit the .b17 at all manually?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">All input is greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Daniel Weber<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">PS: Any input to my question about the topic "</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;background:white">Surface Gain Inside - Pane Temp Error"
in the archive</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> would be welcomed too, where I'm struggling to implement a heat gain input to an inside surface.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>TRNSYS-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org">TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>***************************<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>David BRADLEY<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Principal<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>3 North Pinckney Street - suite 202<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Madison, WI 53703 USA<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>P:+1.608.274.2577<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>F:+1.608.278.1475<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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