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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=PL link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-SG style='color:#0070C0'>Dear</span><span style='color:#0070C0'> Marion, David,</span><span style='color:#0070C0'> <span lang=EN-US>Christoph</span></span><span style='color:#0070C0'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#0070C0'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#0070C0'>Thank you very much for your help!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#0070C0'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#0070C0'>It seems to me that Marion tip is important: internal, solar and longwave heat gains could </span><span class=shorttext><span lang=EN style='color:#0070C0'>imply t</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#0070C0'>he results which was strange for us (temperature on outside surface of TABS higher then air temperature in zone and water temperature).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#0070C0'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#0070C0'>If we found something new then we will write!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#0070C0'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#0070C0'>Regards,<br>Karol<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:PL'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:PL'> Marion Hiller [mailto:Hiller@Transsolar.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 25, 2018 2:56 PM<br><b>To:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Active layer/boundary condition - strange results<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Dear Karol,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Keep in mind that boundary identical means that the backside gets the same heat flux (absorbed solar + internal gains + longwave exchange from surfaces) as the front side of the surface!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>In your email you mentioned temperatures only, but you did say anything about the heat fluxes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>I suspect that the heat flux causes the temperature increase.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Marion<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:DE-CH'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:DE-CH'> TRNSYS-users [<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Karol BANDURSKI via TRNSYS-users<br><b>Sent:</b> Donnerstag, 25. Januar 2018 12:30<br><b>To:</b> hotline <<a href="mailto:hotline@Transsolar.com">hotline@Transsolar.com</a>>; 'TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org' <<a href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org">trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Karol BANDURSKI <<a href="mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl">karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl</a>>; <a href="mailto:katarzyna.palaszynska@put.poznan.pl">katarzyna.palaszynska@put.poznan.pl</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Active layer/boundary condition - strange results<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Dear Christoph,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Thank you for response!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>But we need to be more clear:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>When we set:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul style='margin-top:0cm' type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US>boundary conditions = IDENTICAL<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US>AIR temperature in zone is about 24 C<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US>Temperature of inlet water (active layer) is about 18 C (and outlet almost 19 C)<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US>Convective heat transfer coefficient on back surface is set FLOOR<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Then temperature on back surface is about 26 C. In other words Tso is higher than Tsi and water temperature, while there is no internal heat gains. Why?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Karol<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='mso-fareast-language:PL'>From:</span></b><span style='mso-fareast-language:PL'> hotline [<a href="mailto:hotline@Transsolar.com">mailto:hotline@Transsolar.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 25, 2018 12:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org <<a href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org">trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Karol Bandurski <<a href="mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl">karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl</a>>; <a href="mailto:katarzyna.palaszynska@put.poznan.pl">katarzyna.palaszynska@put.poznan.pl</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Active layer/boundary condition - strange results<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE>Dear Karol and Katarzyna,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>If boundary conditions = IDENTICAL, the surface temperatures of the active wall Tsi and Tso will only be identical, if:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul style='margin-top:0cm' type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2'><span lang=EN-US>Wall construction is symmetrical<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2'><span lang=EN-US>Convective heat transfer coefficients (front and back) are the same<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Best<br>Christoph Stetter<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><i><span lang=DE style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'>__________________________________________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span lang=DE style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span lang=DE style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Christoph Stetter M.Eng.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Curiestraße 2<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'>70563 Stuttgart<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=DE style='mso-fareast-language:DE'><a href="http://www.transsolar.com/"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'>http://www.transsolar.com</span></a></span><span lang=DE style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:green;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Transsolar: KlimaEngineering- Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäuden<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:green;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Stuttgart – München – New York – Paris <o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Geschäftsführer :Diplom-Ingenieur Matthias Schuler, Diplom-Ingenieur Thomas Auer, Diplom-Physiker Stefan Holst, Diplom-Betriebswirt Dieter Schnelle<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Eingetragen beim Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 23347, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Steuernummer: 99073/00911,USt-IdNr.: DE 152272639</span><span lang=DE style='mso-fareast-language:DE'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=DE style='mso-fareast-language:DE'>Von:</span></b><span lang=DE style='mso-fareast-language:DE'> TRNSYS-users [<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Karol Bandurski via TRNSYS-users<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 22. Januar 2018 12:44<br><b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Karol Bandurski <<a href="mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl">karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl</a>><br><b>Betreff:</b> [TRNSYS-users] Active layer/boundary condition - strange results<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>Dear Users and Developers,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>We would like to model active layer as component of TABS.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Now our model is one zone with active layer in ceiling. Adiabatic condition/IDENTICAL for all internal partition and set. We have one external wall.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><span lang=EN-US>We would like to keep neighborhood zones in the same AIR temperature. But when we set boundary condition to IDENTICAL over TABS, then outer surface of this partition has higher temperature then indoor air temperature and active layer water temperature… -Why?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=2 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><span lang=EN-US>The situation is better if we set convective heat transfer coefficient, on outer surface of TABS to 0.001. If we understand, it is mean direct contact between air and surface. So if there are adiabatic/identical condition: outer SURFACE temperature of TABS has the same temperature as AIR inside modelled zone. But our aim is to keep identical inside and outside AIR temperature, not SURFACE temperature… How we can do it?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Kind regards,<br>Karol<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:PL'>--------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:PL'>Karol BANDURSKI M. Sc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:PL'>Faculty of Civil and Environemntal Engeneering<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:PL'>Division of Heating, Air Conditioning and Air Protection<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:PL'>Poznan University of Technology<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karol_Bandurski">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karol_Bandurski</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:PL'><a href="http://www.put.poznan.pl/~karol.bandurski"><span lang=EN-US>www.put.poznan.pl/~karol.bandurski</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:PL'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>