<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
      charset=windows-1252">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Hélène,</p>
    <p>  I would go back to the version that has all Type31s then
      replace one of those Type31s with a 952. Put an online plotter
      that shows the temperature and flow rate of liquid into and out of
      the Type952. Go carefully through the parameters and make sure
      that they are all reasonable values and that there isn't something
      like a very low deep earth temperatures.  Hopefully the results
      will make sense at which point you should replace a second Type31.
      Type65 can be a very powerful debugging tool to make sure that the
      system is operating as expected.</p>
    <p> Have a look also at the time step and the flow rate through the
      pipes. If you have a long time step and a short pipe then it may
      be that the convergence problems are because liquid flows through
      the pipe network multiple times per timestep and causes numerical
      instability in the results.<br>
    </p>
    <p>kind regards,</p>
    <p> David</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/12/2017 04:56, Hélène THIEBLEMONT
      via TRNSYS-users wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:VI1PR0601MB1997E759F27BA57F46A01055E4690@VI1PR0601MB1997.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
        medium)">
      <style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
        {font-family:Wingdings;
        panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
        {font-family:"Cambria Math";
        panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
        {font-family:Calibri;
        panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
        {margin:0cm;
        margin-bottom:.0001pt;
        font-size:11.0pt;
        font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
        mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        color:#0563C1;
        text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        color:#954F72;
        text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
        {mso-style-type:personal-compose;
        font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
        color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
        {mso-style-type:export-only;
        font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
        mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
@page WordSection1
        {size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
        margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}
div.WordSection1
        {page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
        {mso-list-id:1267424335;
        mso-list-type:hybrid;
        mso-list-template-ids:1659504936 -1598783418 67895299 67895301 67895297 67895299 67895301 67895297 67895299 67895301;}
@list l0:level1
        {mso-level-start-at:0;
        mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:-;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
        mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l0:level2
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:o;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level3
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:\F0A7;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:\F0B7;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level5
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:o;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level6
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:\F0A7;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:\F0B7;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level8
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:o;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level9
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:\F0A7;
        mso-level-tab-stop:none;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
        {margin-bottom:0cm;}
ul
        {margin-bottom:0cm;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Good morning everybody,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I am modeling a district
            heating and cooling system. Therefore, in order to model the
            pipes, I am using the Type 952 from TESS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">However, after a
            comparison with the use of a simple pipe (Type 31), I have
            two problems:
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0
            level1 lfo1"><span lang="EN-US">First, I have a significant
              period of my simulation that does not convergence. To give
              you an example, if I change only 5 pipes from Type 31 to
              952 my simulation does not converge 34% of the time and if
              I change all of them my simulation does not converge 100%
              of the time, even in reducing the time step to 0.1hr. Is
              there anything to do that may help TRNSYS to converge in
              that situation?<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0
            level1 lfo1"><span lang="EN-US">Secondly, and what is
              particularly strange to me: when I replace my types 31 by
              952, the results become completely crazy. I’ve attached
              two files with the temperatures and flow that go in and
              out, with the type 31 and the type 952. As you can see,
              the results are logical with the type 31, and the flow and
              the temperature drop close to 0 with the type 952 without
              any reason. Do you have any idea of what may cause this
              kind of problems?<o:p></o:p></span></li>
        </ul>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thank you very much for
            your time and help,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Sincerely<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Hélène<o:p></o:p></p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org">TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI  53703 USA

P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a></pre>
  </body>
</html>