<div dir="ltr">Hi Jakob, <div>if I use HTC = 0.01 kJ/k m² for inside and outside, TRNSYS give me this error you can see in the attached.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you in advance<br></div><div><br></div><div>Kind regard</div><div>Chiara</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-05-02 11:49 GMT+02:00 Chiara Colucci <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chiara.colucci175@gmail.com" target="_blank">chiara.colucci175@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Thank you very much.<div><br></div><div>Kind regard </div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>Chiara</div></font></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-05-02 11:30 GMT+02:00 hotline <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank">hotline@transsolar.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="DE" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear Chiara,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">yes you are right. Use HTC = 0.01 kJ/k m² (not a smaller value!!!) for inside and outside to make the virtual window surface temperature approach
T<sub>sky</sub>.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best<br>
Jakob Merk<u></u><u></u></span></p><span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">_________________________________________________________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Jakob Me</span></i><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">rk<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">TRNSYS Software Team<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
</span></i><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Curiestraße 2<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">70563 Stuttgart<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Fax: <a href="tel:%2B49%20711%2067976-11" value="+497116797611" target="_blank">+49 711 67976-11</a><br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0563c1">hotline@transsolar.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.trnsys.de/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">www.trnsys.de</span></a></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</span><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> TRNSYS-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Chiara Colucci<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Donnerstag, 28. April 2016 12:16<br>
<b>An:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Trnsys17<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Jakob, thank you<span lang="EN"> for the reply. I think I will use the solution 1. About this I would like to know why you talk only<u> inside HTC</u>. Also
<u><span style="color:black">outside HTC</span></u> has to be small?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN">Best regard<br>
Chiara</span><span lang="EN"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2016-04-22 13:12 GMT+02:00 hotline <<a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank">hotline@transsolar.com</a>>:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Chiara,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">A virtual surface isn’t the appropriate approach.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Virtual surfaces should be used as adjacent surfaces between zones in SketchUp which
are merged into one zone with multiple airnodes.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">A virtual surface isn’t a heat transfer surface, it doesn’t exist in the thermal model.
Thus, the error </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">message is correct. The volume of the canyon zone isn’t closed and therefore no view
factor matrix </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">could be calculated. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Modelling outdoor space isn’t a straightforward task.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Solution 1</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">In order to generate a closed volume of the canyon and allow solar radiation to penetrate
into the zone </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">you need a window. To do the shortwave solar correct you may use a so-called “no window”
which has a transparency of 100 %.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">However, this surface has a temperature and thereby influences the zone air temperature
by its inside convections</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">heat transfer coefficient (HTC) and the longwave exchange by its temperature.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">For reducing the influence on the air temperature you may define the inside HTC to
be small (like 0.01 kJ/k m²).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">For longwave radiation exchange the window temperature should be approximately the sky
temperature.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">However, you can’t fix a temperature of window. You have to try to calculate a surface
gain such that the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Temperature is close and the model is still converging.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Solution 2</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">You use solution 1 for calculating the incident radiation (total and direct) on the
window and use this radiation</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">as input to a model which doesn’t contain a “canyon zone”. For longwave radiation exchange
you have to</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">estimate the “effective ground temperature”.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">All the best</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The Transsolar Software Team</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">_________________________________________________________________________________________________</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Jakob Merk</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">TRNSYS Software Team</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
</span></i><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Curiestraße 2</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">70563 Stuttgart</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Fax:
<a href="tel:%2B49%20711%2067976-11" target="_blank">+49 711 67976-11</a><br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0563c1">hotline@transsolar.com</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.trnsys.de/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">www.trnsys.de</span></a></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> TRNSYS-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Chiara Colucci<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 6. April 2016 16:49<br>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [TRNSYS-users] Trnsys17</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
TRNSYS-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
TRNSYS-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>