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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear Chiara,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">yes you are right. Use HTC = 0.01 kJ/k m² (not a smaller value!!!) for inside and outside to make the virtual window surface temperature approach
T<sub>sky</sub>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best<br>
Jakob Merk<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">_________________________________________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Jakob Me</span></i><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">rk<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">TRNSYS Software Team<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
</span></i><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Curiestraße 2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">70563 Stuttgart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Fax: +49 711 67976-11<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0563C1">hotline@transsolar.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.trnsys.de/"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">www.trnsys.de</span></a></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> TRNSYS-users [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Chiara Colucci<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Donnerstag, 28. April 2016 12:16<br>
<b>An:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Trnsys17<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Jakob, thank you<span lang="EN"> for the reply. I think I will use the solution 1. About this I would like to know why you talk only<u> inside HTC</u>. Also
<u><span style="color:black">outside HTC</span></u> has to be small?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN">Best regard<br>
Chiara</span><span lang="EN"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2016-04-22 13:12 GMT+02:00 hotline <<a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank">hotline@transsolar.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chiara,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A virtual surface isn’t the appropriate approach.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Virtual surfaces should be used as adjacent surfaces between zones in SketchUp which
are merged into one zone with multiple airnodes.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A virtual surface isn’t a heat transfer surface, it doesn’t exist in the thermal model.
Thus, the error </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">message is correct. The volume of the canyon zone isn’t closed and therefore no view
factor matrix </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">could be calculated. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Modelling outdoor space isn’t a straightforward task.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Solution 1</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In order to generate a closed volume of the canyon and allow solar radiation to penetrate
into the zone </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">you need a window. To do the shortwave solar correct you may use a so-called “no window”
which has a transparency of 100 %.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">However, this surface has a temperature and thereby influences the zone air temperature
by its inside convections</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">heat transfer coefficient (HTC) and the longwave exchange by its temperature.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For reducing the influence on the air temperature you may define the inside HTC to
be small (like 0.01 kJ/k m²).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For longwave radiation exchange the window temperature should be approximately the sky
temperature.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">However, you can’t fix a temperature of window. You have to try to calculate a surface
gain such that the</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Temperature is close and the model is still converging.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Solution 2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">You use solution 1 for calculating the incident radiation (total and direct) on the
window and use this radiation</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">as input to a model which doesn’t contain a “canyon zone”. For longwave radiation exchange
you have to</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">estimate the “effective ground temperature”.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">All the best</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The Transsolar Software Team</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">_________________________________________________________________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Jakob Merk</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">TRNSYS Software Team</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
</span></i><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Curiestraße 2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">70563 Stuttgart</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Fax:
<a href="tel:%2B49%20711%2067976-11" target="_blank">+49 711 67976-11</a><br>
Email: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0563C1">hotline@transsolar.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Web: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.trnsys.de/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">www.trnsys.de</span></a></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> TRNSYS-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Chiara Colucci<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 6. April 2016 16:49<br>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [TRNSYS-users] Trnsys17</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
TRNSYS-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org">TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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