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Marcello,<br>
You are correct about the file; the surface angles correspond to
absolute azimuths and are not relative to the opening. That should
teach me to check the documentation one more time before sending out
advice!<br>
best,<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/12/2015 02:11,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:marcello.caciolo@cofelyaxima-gdfsuez.com">marcello.caciolo@cofelyaxima-gdfsuez.com</a> wrote:<br>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Dear David,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Thank
you for your answer. I think that I am going to use type 67
only, following your advice. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">However,
I have a doubt about what you say in your answer :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="EN-US">“if you have more
than one orientation to worry about then you can just
shift the horizon index for each different orientation of
in the file. The angular heights of obstructions don't
change; only their position on the horizon changes.”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">
</span></i><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">However,
from the TRNSYS manual : “<i>The surface angles for which
angular obstruction heights are provided correspond to
absolute azimuths; they are NOT specified relative to the
azimuth of the opening”.</i><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">I
understand from this that -180 corresponds always to North
(for our Hemisphere), -90 to East , 0 to South and 90 to
West, whatever the surface azimuth is. Thus, I can just past
and copy the same profile for each opening, right? There
should be no need to change the position on the horizon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Thank
you for your attention.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Best
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B">Marcello
Caciolo</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B">Responsable
Outils et Méthodes d'Analyse Energétique</span><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray"><img
id="_x0000_i1026"
src="cid:part1.05070305.03060005@tess-inc.com"
alt="cid:image003.jpg@01CD4E08.954D04D0" height="62"
width="170"><br>
<b><br>
</b>Cellule Efficacité Energétique et Environnementale<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">INGÉNIERIE
PROJETS <br>
15 rue Nina Simone<br>
CS 39601 - 44096 Nantes cedex 1</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">Tél.:
+33 02 40 41 06 57</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:prenom.nom@aximaseitha-gdfsuez.com"><span
style="color:blue">marcello.caciolo@cofelyaxima-gdfsuez.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">Le
26 mai 2015, nous emménageons au 15 rue Nina Simone – CS
39601 – 44096 Nantes cedex 1<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">Nos
numéros de téléphone restent inchangés<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">De :</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
David BRADLEY [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>] <br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> jeudi 11 juin 2015 22:11<br>
<b>À :</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org;
Caciolo Marcello (Axima Concept)<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Type 64 and 67 shading
mask<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Marcello,<br>
I'm not sure how one might combine Types64 and 67. Despite
the fact that I wrote Type64, I have never been convinced that
it was a very useful model. It computes the impact of a
faraway mask on radiation falling on a horizontal surface and
was intended to be a "quick and dirty" model to get a basic
idea of shading by applying one mask to all surfaces
regardless of their orientation. If you want a correct
estimation of shading by obstacles (whether they are far off
or nearby) then you should really use Type67 in order to be
correct in the estimation of how the horizon affects that
surface. The disadvantage of Type67 of course is that you need
to provide a mask for each surface. However, all the masks can
be provided in a single file and if you have more than one
orientation to worry about then you can just shift the horizon
index for each different orientation of in the file. The
angular heights of obstructions don't change; only their
position on the horizon changes.<br>
best,<br>
David<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 06/11/2015 02:25, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:marcello.caciolo@cofelyaxima-gdfsuez.com">marcello.caciolo@cofelyaxima-gdfsuez.com</a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Trnsys users,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I have a question
about the possibility to use type 64 and type 67 together.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">In my projects, I use
to define a “geographical” horizon line, valid for all
orientations, by type 64, and to use type 67 for masks due
to near obstacles (trees, buildings, …) (different for
each surface). Self-shading from overhang and wingwall are
taken into account by type 34.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Then, I connect
outputs of type 64 to type 67 and outputs of type 67 to
type 34.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">However, type 34
provide a parameter to say if radiation is provided by
type 64 or 67, in order to avoid to take into account
twice the sky view factor, but type 67 does not.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I wonder if this can
have an impact on results.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Could you please give
me your advice?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thank you!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B">Marcello
Caciolo</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B">Responsable
Outils et Méthodes d'Analyse Energétique</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray"><img
id="Image_x0020_1"
src="cid:part1.05070305.03060005@tess-inc.com"
alt="cid:image003.jpg@01CD4E08.954D04D0" border="0"
height="62" width="170"><br>
<b><br>
</b>Cellule Efficacité Energétique et Environnementale</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">INGÉNIERIE
PROJETS <br>
15 rue Nina Simone<br>
CS 39601 - 44096 Nantes cedex 1</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">Tél.:
+33 02 40 41 06 57</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:prenom.nom@aximaseitha-gdfsuez.com">marcello.caciolo@cofelyaxima-gdfsuez.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">Le
26 mai 2015, nous emménageons au 15 rue Nina Simone – CS
39601 – 44096 Nantes cedex 1</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">Nos
numéros de téléphone restent inchangés</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>TRNSYS-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org">TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>***************************<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>David BRADLEY<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Principal<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>22 North Carroll Street - suite 370<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Madison, WI 53703 USA<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>P:+1.608.274.2577<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>F:+1.608.278.1475<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a></pre>
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