<p dir="ltr">Thanks. Just one question. Type97 does it calculate based on the ping pong method or onion method ?</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">Den 20/10/2014 23.31 skrev "Dols, William Stuart" <<a href="mailto:william.dols@nist.gov">william.dols@nist.gov</a>>:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It looks to be “working” now.<br>
The previous set of files you sent had nothing connected to the control input signals.<br>
The latest set of files has the “new” equation connected to them, so the airflow paths are “open” whenever the outdoor temperature rises above 17 C.<br>
<br>
In your TRNSYS project, you are only attempting to plot the airflows from AMBIENT into the building (signals from Type98 to Temperature-2), but all of your flows are out of the building (more on that later).<br>
Each zone connection (group of paths between two zones) has two flows associated with it.<br>
For example, zone 3 on level 1 (1_3) has two connections with ambient: “1_3_to_AMBIENT” and “AMBIENT_to_1_3”.
<br>
These values will always be either zero or positive. <br>
In your case “xxx_to_AMBIENT” are positive when control values are 1, and the others are always zero.<br>
<br>
All of the flows being out of the building is a problem, because mass balance is not being properly determined.<br>
This appears to be due to the fact that your zones are becoming isolated when all of the paths are closed.<br>
This in turn “throws off” the airflow calculation, and it no longer properly performs the airflow convergence test.<br>
You should always have some leakage to prevent isolated zones.<br>
Perhaps the best way to do this for this project is to add a flow path next to each of the existing ones with a smaller “infiltration” sized leak.<br>
This will prevent the isolated zone problem, and provide more reasonable results.<br>
You will need to regenerate the AIR file. See attached files.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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- Stuart<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> TRNSYS-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Donya Sheikh Khan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS-CONTAM-TYPE98<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sorry I forgot to attache the files<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2014-10-18 9:01 GMT+02:00 Donya Sheikh Khan <<a href="mailto:donya_sh@msn.com" target="_blank">donya_sh@msn.com</a>>:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Actually it is TRNSYS that doesn't show me results, if I try to display the results using Contam, it shows me my airflows<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2014-10-18 8:47 GMT+02:00 Donya Sheikh Khan <<a href="mailto:donya_sh@msn.com" target="_blank">donya_sh@msn.com</a>>:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks again..<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I have tried to create a new model by trying to follow the cottage example as much as I can. I have connected TYpe98 to an equation which sends a signal 1 only if the outdoor temperatures are above 17. Still I don't get any air-flow to
the orifice. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'm not sure of what you mean about "you need to connect something to the input signal.."?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regards<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Donya<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2014-10-17 22:18 GMT+02:00 Dols, William Stuart <<a href="mailto:william.dols@nist.gov" target="_blank">william.dols@nist.gov</a>>:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">You need to connect something to the “Input signal to control named: <…>” INPUTS of Type98, i.e.,
<atrium_v1c>, <Rum2.1_eksc>, etc.<br>
These values will be transferred to the associated named controls of the CONTAM PRJ file via Type98.<br>
Note that if you want to control more than one item in CONTAM with a single value, you can use phantom control nodes within the PRJ.<br>
You can reference the named control nodes within CONTAM with a phantom node.<br>
This is demonstrated in the cottage_dcv example provided with Type98 files.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">- Stuart</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> TRNSYS-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Donya Sheikh Khan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 17, 2014 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS-CONTAM-TYPE98</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for your replay. Here is my model. I tried looking at the model, I can't immediately see, what that can be causing this problem.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Donya<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2014-10-17 13:19 GMT+02:00 Dols, William Stuart <<a href="mailto:william.dols@nist.gov" target="_blank">william.dols@nist.gov</a>>:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Donya,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It sounds like you have the right idea, but it’s hard to tell exact details from your description.<br>
Have you run the example case provided with Type98?<br>
This example provides control of simple AHS flows and an HRV fan via control signals provided to/from CONTAM from/to TRNSYS via Type98, i.e., both signal directions are demonstrated to synchronize system flows between CONTAM and Type56.<br>
<br>
If you want, you can send me your files, and I will look at them.<br>
<br>
There are some things you can do to help debug your issues:<br>
- Create report controls in the associated CONTAM project file and view outputs in <your project>.log file.<br>
- Plot/output signals in TRNSYS to ensure correct logic, etc.<br>
- Set the first value in the air file to 3 to write detailed data exchange info to the Type98.log file available in the Type98 AppData directory, e.g., in Windows 7 C:\Users\<you>\AppData\<Roaming>\NIST\Type98.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
- Stuart</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
W. Stuart Dols<br>
National Institute of Standards and Technology<br>
Engineering Laboratory<br>
Indoor Air Quality and Ventilation Group<br>
100 Bureau Drive MS 8633<br>
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8633<br>
<a href="http://www.bfrl.nist.gov/IAQanalysis" target="_blank">www.bfrl.nist.gov/IAQanalysis</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Donya Sheikh Khan [mailto:<a href="mailto:donya_sh@msn.com" target="_blank">donya_sh@msn.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 16, 2014 2:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS-CONTAM-TYPE98</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Hi</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I'm a student at Aarhus University in Denmark. I'm trying to create a Contam model, where I have a section of a building
with an atrium, where I want to use natural ventilation during summer to ventilate the rooms. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I use Contam3.1 and TRNSYS 17 to couple Type56 and Type98 with each other. The coupling is going as planned. I have
used constant controllers in Contam to get manual inputs, so I can vary the opening area of my paths. When I manually set the inputs from the controllers to have a value (e.g. 1) in Type98 everything is well (I get values of the flow), and when I try to connect
it to an equation with a constant value, I still have a flow. But when I connect the input values to an equation with a variable value (e.g. from 1 if the outdoor temperature is 17C and above and 0 otherwise) I don't get any flow (looking over 8760 hr) - it
is as if it can't read variable values. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Now when I copy everything but just use Type97 instead of Type98 and use a variable input value for the controller
I get a flow. The only thing is, I get a convergence error because the Type56 isn't converging. This gives me some pretty huge errors when I compare my TRNSYS-Type98 model with TRNSYS-Type97 model. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">My questions is, I really want to use Type98, is there any way I can fix the problems with the model not accepting
variable input-control-signals? and if nothing can be done, how can I fix the convergence problem?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888">-- </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888">Regards</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888">Donya Sheikh Khan</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">--
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<p class="MsoNormal">Med venlig hilsen<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Donya Sheikh Khan<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Med venlig hilsen<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Donya Sheikh Khan<u></u><u></u></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Med venlig hilsen<u></u><u></u></p>
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