<div dir="ltr">Dear Mehrdad,<div>Hope you are doing well.</div><div><br></div><div>The results you are getting make sense, you have quite a massive and insulated unit with no ventilation whatsoever.</div><div>- When you have massive components in your unit, the fluctuation of the indoor temperatures reduces a lot, and</div>
<div>- With no ventilation (especially no induced ventilation by night, to make the night purge ventilation effect), and</div><div>- With the insulation, you are reducing the heat exchange between the inside and outside.</div>
<div>Therefore, these results are normal.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm working with multi-story residential buildings, and in the beginning I had very massive buildings with a fixed ventilation of 0.5 m/s and I used to get such results, especially that I'm working with hot climates...</div>
<div><br></div><div>I noticed also that we're talking about a temperature range of 12-19 degC... Have you tried to check the results in the summer?</div><div><br></div><div>All the best,</div><div>Amr</div></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:05 AM, Mehrdad Farshchi <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mehrdadfarshchi@gmail.com" target="_blank">mehrdadfarshchi@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">Dear
Jochen,</span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"> </span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">Thank
you for your email. I have modelled and simulated a simple rectangular building
(15m x10m) in Sydney with Trnsys 17 software. Then using the Trnsys library I
have edited the building components in order to make a heavy weight building as
follows:</span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"> </span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">Floor
= BST_H_FLO <span> </span>(see the figure
attached)</span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">External
Wall = BST_H_EXT<span> </span><span> </span>(see the figure attached)</span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">Roof=
BST_H_ROO<span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>(see the
figure attached)</span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"> </span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">Although
Infiltration, Ventilation, Heating, Cooling and Comfort regime are off, the
observed thermal lag was very low (less than an hour). Even I changed the wall
concrete thickness to 0.4m and the result for the air temperature (TAir_H_0.4)
did not show any changes in terms of thermal lag (please have a look at the graph attached)</span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></span></div><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">Tambient:
ambient temperature , </span></p><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">TAIR_H_0.1:
<span> </span>air temperature of air node with above
mentioned building component and setting and </span></p><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">TAIR_H_0.4
: air temperature of air node with above mentioned building component and
setting the wall concrete thickness to 0.4m.</span></p><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"> </span></p><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">I
wonder if you could please let me know how to resolve this issue.</span></p><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"> </span></p></span><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">Kind Regards</span></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">Mehrdad</span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><br>
</span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 6:40 PM, hotline <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank">hotline@transsolar.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
<div lang="DE" vlink="purple" link="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dear Mehrdad,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">TYPE 56 considers thermal masses. I can imagine that you’ve set a high ventilation rates.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">If so, you might compare the surface temperatures or the operative temperature instead.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:9pt">_________________________________________________________________________________________</span></i><i><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:9pt">_________<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:9pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:8pt">Jochen Lam<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:8pt">TRNSYS Software Team<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:8pt"><br>
</span></i><b><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:8pt">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:8pt">Curiestraße 2<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:8pt">70563 Stuttgart<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:8pt">Fax: <a href="tel:%2B49%20711%2067976-11" value="+497116797611" target="_blank">+49 711 67976-11</a><br>
Email: <a href="mailto:jlam@transsolar.com" target="_blank">jlam@transsolar.com</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-size:8pt">Web: <a href="http://www.trnsys.de/" target="_blank">www.trnsys.de</a>
</span><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-size:10pt">Von:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-size:10pt"> TRNSYS-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Mehrdad Farshchimonfared<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 16. Juli 2014 06:12<br>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu" target="_blank">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [TRNSYS-users] Thermal mass is not considered in Type 56 simulation!!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">Dear Trnsys users,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">I have modelled a residential building with different building components (including different thermal masses) using Trnsys 3d, Type 56 . The simulation results show no thermal lag between hourly inside air temperature
of each zone even if, the heavy materials are used. It is weird as it seems that Trnsys does not take into account the thermal mass of walls, floors and etc.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">Have you come across with this problem previously? <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">If yes, I wonder if you could please let me know how to resolve this issue as soon as possible.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">Kind Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">Mehrdad <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div>
</div>
<br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
TRNSYS-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
TRNSYS-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org">TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><font color="#444444">Amr Alaaeldin Elesawy</font><br><font style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><br><font size="1"><b>PhD Student | Building Engineering</b></font></font></font><div>
<font size="1" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><font style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><b>Department of Architecture, Built Environment and Construction Engineering (A.B.C.)</b><br>Politecnico di Mil</font><font color="#666666" style="color:rgb(102,102,102)">ano, Italy</font></font><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<font color="#666666" size="1" face="tahoma, sans-serif">+39 327 056 0018</font></div></div></div>
</div>