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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Karol,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">as always there is possibility to model it with Trnsys
</span></font><font size="2" color="navy" face="Wingdings"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy">J</span></font><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy">.
<br>
However the modelling is more complex because you have to make sure that the modelling assumptions still yield to a valid result.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The basic idea is to model the “semi-outdoor space” as an “indoor space” and you have think about how the main thermal processes
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">are modelled:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">short-wave radiation (direct and diffuse)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">long-wave radiation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">convection<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">humidity<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">comfort<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">For example:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">short-wave radiation (direct and diffuse)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">depending on the size and distribution of the holes you can use the so-c<st1:PersonName w:st="on">alle</st1:PersonName>d
“no window” with a 100 % transmittance <br>
and the leaf part as an opaque surface with a solar absorptance or model the “leaf roof” as a single layer window with
<br>
an approximated optical properties.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">The direct distribution model is fine, for the diffuse radiation you need to check if the model
is adequate. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">….<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Long-wave radiation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">What is the temperature of the “leaf roof” for long-wave radiation exchange within space?
<br>
Do the holes have to have sky temperature? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Convection<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">What input values do you have? Can a nodal model like TRNFlow solve this or do you need a CFD to
define the ventilation rates?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">….<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Humidity<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">Do you need to take into account the impact of vegetation with respect to humidity and cooling effects?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">….<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The success really depends on your project and what the aim of the simulation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy">Marion</span></font></st1:place></st1:City><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="1" color="green" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green;font-weight:bold">Dipl.-Ing.
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Marion Hiller</st1:PersonName></span></font></b><b><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold"><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">Curiestraße 2<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">70563
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Stuttgart</st1:City></st1:PersonName></st1:place><br>
T</span></font><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black">elefon: +49 711 67976-0<br>
</span></font><u><font size="1" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"><a href="http://www.trnsys.de/">http://www.trnsys.de</a></span></font></u><u><font size="1" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue"><o:p></o:p></span></font></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><font size="1" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"><o:p><span style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></font></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="1" color="green" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green;font-weight:bold">Transsolar: KlimaEngineering- Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäuden</span></font></b><font size="3" color="navy" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="OLE_LINK1"></a><a name="OLE_LINK2"></a><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><b><font size="1" color="green" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:green;font-weight:bold">Stutt</span></font></b><b><font size="1" color="green" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:green;font-weight:bold">gart</span></font></b></st1:PersonName><b><font size="1" color="green" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:green;font-weight:bold">
– München – New York – Paris <o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">Geschäftsführer :Diplom-Ingenieur
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Matthias Schuler</st1:PersonName>, Diplom-Ingenieur <st1:PersonName w:st="on">
Thomas Auer</st1:PersonName>, Diplom-Physiker <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stefan Holst</st1:PersonName>, Diplom-Betriebswirt
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Dieter Schnelle</st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">Eingetragen beim Amtsgericht
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuttgart</st1:PersonName> HRB 23347, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">Steuernummer: 99073/00911,USt-IdNr.: DE 152272639<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">Von:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> TRNSYS-users [mailto:<st1:PersonName w:st="on">trnsys-users</st1:PersonName>-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Im Auftrag von </span></b>Karol BANDURSKI<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Gesendet:</span></b> Freitag, 13. Juni 2014 16:39<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">An:</span></b> TRNSYS-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Betreff:</span></b> [TRNSYS-users] shady place simulation</span></font><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:
11.0pt">Dear Users and Developers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:
11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:
11.0pt">I would like to model the zone that envelope is ‘fully of holes’, it consists of only shading elements. Like space inside upper branches of a tree or in the forest.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:
11.0pt">So, there is no thermal insulation and air and heat can flow into and across zone by natural ventilation, but sun radiation is limited.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:
11.0pt">I wonder if TRNSYS simulation (TRNBUILD+TRNFLOW) can be appropriate to model such objects (inside thermal comfort) or it is necessary to use CFD simulation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:
11.0pt">I think to prepare zone (maybe a few airnodes) with very low thermal resistance (or thermal properties of construction material, e.g. steel) and with a lot of cracks
in the walls, then to model shading elements using shading zones.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:
11.0pt">Do you have some idea or some experience with such objects?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:
11.0pt">Any comments, hints and tips are appreciated!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:
11.0pt">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:
11.0pt">Karol<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:
11.0pt">------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:
11.0pt">Karol Bandurski MSc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="PL" style="font-size:
11.0pt;background:white"><a href="http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/" target="_top"><font color="black"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Institute
of Environmental Engineering</span></font></a></span></font><span lang="EN-US" style="background:white"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;background:white">Poznan</span></font></st1:PlaceName><span lang="EN-US" style="background:white">
<st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType></span></st1:place><span lang="EN-US" style="background:white"> of Technology<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="PL" style="font-size:
11.0pt;background:white"><a href="http://www.put.poznan.pl/~karol.bandurski"><span lang="EN-US">www.put.poznan.pl/~karol.bandurski</span></a></span></font><span lang="EN-US" style="background:white"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="PL" style="font-size:
11.0pt;background:white"><a href="http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/">www.ee.put.poznan.pl</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:
11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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