<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>That being said, even with those programs, the modelling of airflow through large horizontal openings is "rough" at best. CFD may be a helpful tool to gain insights here.<br><br><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.28125); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.214844); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.214844); ">Mit freundlichen Grüßen- Sent from my iPhone <span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.273438); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.207031); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.207031); ">(excuse the brevity)</span></span></div><div><br></div><div>i. A.</div><div>Jean Marais</div><div>b.i.g. bechtold</div><div>Tel. +49 30 6706662-23</div></div><div><br>On 14.02.2014, at 22:31, David BRADLEY <<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
Karol,<br>
What I have often done is to define a coupling air flow between
the two zones, then run the simulation once with very little
coupling flow and then once with a high airflow. The values of "low"
and "high" are somewhat arbitrary; the idea is to make a reasonable
guess as to how much air transfer there is. If there is no real
difference in the simulation outputs that I care about (such as
comfort or total building energy consumption) then I am confident
that I don't have to spend much time thinking about what a good
value would be (the model isn't sensitive to the value). If I find
that there is a high degree of sensitivity then I can focus some
more effort there.<br>
<br>
At the other end of the spectrum, you can of course implement
COMIS, CONTAM, or TRNFlow in the building so as to get an estimate
of what the transfer might be.<br>
Kind regards,<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/14/2014 12:26, Karol Bandurski
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:00b901cf29b2$551dd650$ff5982f0$@put.poznan.pl" type="cite">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Dear Jochen,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Thank
you for your advice, but now I am looking for the values for
such exchange, and the basis for this airflow assumption.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">What
is your practice with this issue?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Regards,<br>
Karol<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:PL">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:PL">
hotline [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:hotline@Transsolar.com"><a href="mailto:hotline@Transsolar.com">mailto:hotline@Transsolar.com</a></a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 14, 2014 4:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'TRNSYS users mailing list at the Solar
Energy Lab, UW-Madison'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] air contact<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="DE">Dear
Karol,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">You
can merge both zones to one zone and two airnodes. Please
have a look into the manual 5.4.1 for the difference between
airnode and zone. </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">if you draw the building
in SketchUp, you need to define the wall as a virtual
surface, to merge them in TRNBuild ,use the 180° arrow on
the upper left site of the zone window<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">If you define the wall
manually in TRNBuild ,you can add directly another airnode
to the zone. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">After
merging you have two airnodes in the zone and you might need
to define an air exchange see 5.2.4.10.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Best<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="EN-US">__________________________________________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="DE">Jochen Lam<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="DE">TRNSYS Software Team<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="DE"><br>
</span></i><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="DE">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="DE">Curiestraße 2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="DE">70563 Stuttgart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="DE">Fax: +49 711 67976-11<br>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jlam@transsolar.com"><a href="mailto:jlam@transsolar.com">jlam@transsolar.com</a></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="DE">Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.trnsys.de"><a href="http://www.trnsys.de">www.trnsys.de</a></a> </span><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="DE"> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu"><a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu">trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu</a></a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu"><a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu">mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu</a></a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Karol Bandurski<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 14. Februar 2014 15:24<br>
<b>An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu"><a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [TRNSYS-users] air contact<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I wondering how are you
model air contact:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">there is two zones (e.g.
two rooms) and they are connected by air (e.g. doorway),
there are no mechanical ventilation or intensive, one
direction, air flow.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I think to assume some
massless construction between this zones, but what
resistance will be appropriate? Or maybe some both direction
air flow, but how can I assume the value of the flow?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Do you have some idea?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Karol<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:PL" lang="EN-US">------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:PL" lang="EN-US">Karol Bandurski MSc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;mso-fareast-language:PL"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/" target="_top"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none" lang="EN-US">Institute of Environmental Engineering</span></a></span><span style="background:white;mso-fareast-language:PL" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;mso-fareast-language:PL" lang="EN-US">Poznan University of Technology<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;mso-fareast-language:PL" lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.put.poznan.pl/%7Ekarol.bandurski"><a href="http://www.put.poznan.pl/~karol.bandurski">www.put.poznan.pl/~karol.bandurski</a></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;mso-fareast-language:PL"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl"><a href="http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl">www.ee.put.poznan.pl</a></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com"><a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tess-inc.com"><a href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.trnsys.com"><a href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a></a></pre>
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