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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Pauline Gelin,
<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">the resulting u-value is dependent on the boundary conditions. Type 56 take the current boundary conditions
(actual temperatures etc.) <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">whereas WINDOW takes fixed conditions according to the selected standard. This means in order to have the same
values you need <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">to have the same boundary conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The u-values displayed in the window type manager are read from the footer lines which are added to the WINDOW
report file.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">If you create a new glazing you have to add these values manually.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Without looking at your project it is impossible to give further advice. B4_QT is a zone output for all surfaces
of a zone.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I have no clear view on how you use this output for calculating the u-value of a window.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">However, the following explains the calculation principles of Type 56 a little.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Type56 – glazing modeling<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">In the window type manager you can select 5 options for calculating the spacer:<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">If you select ID-Spacer = 0 it uses the data from the WINDOW report (this includes the height and width of
the glazing).<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Otherwise, it uses the selected space condition of no spacer.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Type 56 divides the glazing area into glazing and edge area. The “edge area” is defined as
<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">63.5mm wide band at glass periphery. The region inside this is what is c<st1:PersonName w:st="on">alle</st1:PersonName>d
"center of glass".<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The height and width of the glazing defined the window type manager and the WINDOW report file, respectively.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Type 56 calculates the area weighted conduction values for the total glazing based on temperature dependent
<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">u-values for edge and center of glass under the current conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Type 56 - FRAME modeling
<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">TRNSYS doesn’t use the frame data from the WINDOW report file.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">In principle there are two ways of simulating the frame:<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.)<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font></span><![endif]><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy">Define the frame as a wall
<br>
This is the precise way to do it because the frame has it’s own surface temperature (independent from the window)
<br>
in the solving processing in Type 56. However, it is more effort to define it.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">Define frame properties like frame fraction, solar absorption, emissivity, conduction
(1/Rcond) in window type<br>
Type 56 calculates a temperature depending resulting for the glazing (including edge effect and shading)
<br>
and then applies a simple area weighting to the conduction: <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy"> </span></font></span><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">
<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Marion<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="1" color="green" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green;font-weight:bold">Dipl.-Ing.
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Marion Hiller</st1:PersonName></span></font></b><b><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold"><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">Curiestraße 2<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">70563
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuttgart</st1:PersonName><br>
Telefon: +49 711 67976-0<br>
</span></font><u><font size="1" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"><a href="http://www.trnsys.de/">http://www.trnsys.de</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><font size="1" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"><o:p><span style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></font></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="1" color="green" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green;font-weight:bold">Transsolar: KlimaEngineering- Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäuden</span></font></b><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="OLE_LINK1"></a><a name="OLE_LINK2"></a><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><b><font size="1" color="green" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:green;font-weight:bold">Stutt</span></font></b><b><font size="1" color="green" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:green;font-weight:bold">gart</span></font></b></st1:PersonName><b><font size="1" color="green" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:green;font-weight:bold">
– München – New York – Paris <o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">Geschäftsführer :Diplom-Ingenieur
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Matthias Schuler</st1:PersonName>, Diplom-Ingenieur <st1:PersonName w:st="on">
Thomas Auer</st1:PersonName>, Diplom-Physiker <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stefan Holst</st1:PersonName>, Diplom-Betriebswirt
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Dieter Schnelle</st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">Eingetragen beim Amtsgericht
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuttgart</st1:PersonName> HRB 23347, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">Steuernummer: 99073/00911,USt-IdNr.: DE 152272639<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">Von:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu</st1:PersonName> [mailto:<st1:PersonName w:st="on">trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu</st1:PersonName>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Im Auftrag von </span></b>Pauline GELIN<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Gesendet:</span></b> Freitag, 6. September 2013 13:29<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">An:</span></b> trnsys-users<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Betreff:</span></b> [TRNSYS-users] Persistent questioning about window definition in WINDOW6</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="FR" style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Arial">Hi,
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="FR" style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Arial"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">W</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-family:Arial">hen I use a glass</span></font></span><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-family:
Arial">
<span class="hps">that I had created</span> <span class="hps">from</span> <span class="hps">
WINDOW6</span> <span class="hps">software</span>, <span class="hps">it turned out</span>
<span class="hps">that the</span> <span class="hps">Uwindow value, deduced from the B4_QT output doesn’t</span>
<span class="hps">correspond to</span> <span class="hps">what I expected</span>, when I calculated it with
<span class="hps">the</span> <span class="hps">Ug</span> <span class="hps">value</span>
<span class="hps">shown in the database TRNBUILD, the </span>percentage frame and Uframe filled in
<span class="hps">TRNBUILD</span>.<font color="#1f497d"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">After many tests, it appears that the Uwindow calculated differs if I take a glazing created in WINDOW6</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial">
(</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-family:Arial">for which I didn’t give any information of spacer in order to change this in the TRNBUILD project) or
</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial">a
</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-family:Arial">glazing initially given in the TRNBUILD database</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial">.
</span></font></span><span class="hps"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">While
</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-family:Arial">Uframe percentage and spacer values indicated in my database windows are the same.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">Does anyone know where
</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial">does
</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-family:Arial">this difference come from</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial">?
<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">What values of Uframe</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial">,
</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-family:Arial">and percentage
</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial">frame and
</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-family:Arial">spacer</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial">, does
</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-family:Arial">TRNBUILD consider
</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial">:
</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-family:Arial">those entries in the database glazings or those filled in the database window that is created for each project?<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">Then, also with a test of 100% glazing window, if I use a glass type I created with WINDOW 6 without frame and spacer (because I want
to choose after the spacer and the frame in TRNBUILD), which is shown in WINID with a indicative Ug of 1.07 W/m²K, correct value for this type, when I look the outputs Uwin and B4_QT, these ones give me a Uglass of only 0.57 W/m²K !<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">Could you explain to me what I did wrong? And more especially, how TRNSYS could calculate this value?<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">Thanks a lot in advance for all your answers.
<font color="#1f497d"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">Best regards,</span></font></span><span class="hps"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN" style="font-family:Arial"><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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