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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=FR link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hello, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sorry to insist but I am really blocked by these questions of data. I am not at all sure of the TRNSYS simulations. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Are</span></span><span class=shorttext><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>there no</span></span><span class=shorttext><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>one else who</span></span><span class=shorttext><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>has</span></span><span class=shorttext><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>met</span></span><span class=shorttext><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>these misunderstandings?</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Pauline GELIN<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ingénieur Conception environnementale<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D'><img width=79 height=52 id="_x0000_i1028" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CE5AE8.89B0F030" alt="cid:image004.jpg@01CE062A.F4C2C000"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img width=81 height=13 id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image002.jpg@01CE5AE8.89B0F030" alt="cid:image006.jpg@01CE062A.F4C2C000"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>10 avenue des canuts<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>69120 VAULX EN VELIN<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>T : 04.37.45.33.33 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ligne directe : 04.37.45.33.47<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="www.katene.coop"><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>www.katene.coop</span></b></a></span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.quadriplus-groupe.com"><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>www.quadriplus-groupe.com</span></b></a></span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.woopa.coop"><b><span style='color:#1F497D'>www.woopa.coop</span></b></a></span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Pauline GELIN <br><b>Envoyé :</b> jeudi 23 mai 2013 09:49<br><b>À :</b> trnsys-users<br><b>Objet :</b> Persistent questioning about window definition<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Then</span></span><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <span class=hps>I used</span> <span class=hps>a glass</span> <span class=hps>that I had created</span> <span class=hps>from</span> <span class=hps>WINDOW6</span> <span class=hps>software</span>, <span class=hps>it turned out</span> <span class=hps>that the</span> <span class=hps>Uwin</span> value, <span class=hps>given</span> <span class=hps>output by</span> T<span class=hps>RNBUILD</span> <span class=hps>and</span> <span class=hps>used</span> <span class=hps>in the simulations,</span> <span class=hps>did not</span> <span class=hps>correspond to</span> <span class=hps>what I expected</span>, <span class=hps>result</span> <span class=hps>due to</span> <span class=hps>the</span> <span class=hps>Ug</span> <span class=hps>value</span> from <span class=hps>database</span> <span class=hps>and </span>percentage frame and Uframe filled in <span class=hps>TRNBUILD</span>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>After many tests, it appears that the calculated Uwin TRNBUILD differs if I take a glazing created in WINDOW6</span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>, </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>for which I have not information of spacer and, or </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>a </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>glazing initially given in the TRNBUILD database</span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>. </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>While </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Uframe percentage and spacer values indicated in my database windows are the same.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Does anyone know where </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>does </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>this difference come from</span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>? <o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What values of Uframe</span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>, </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>and percentage </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>frame and </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>spacer</span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>, does </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>TRNBUILD consider </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>: </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>those entries in the database glazings or those filled in the database window that is created for each project?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>This misunderstanding </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>about the </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>values considered by </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>T</span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>RNBUILD is not at all reassuring. </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Especially when I tested a window created with WINDOW6 and one from the initial TRNBUILD database with 100% glass (so without frame). <o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>And in the first case I found </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>a </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Uwin value equal to 0.3 instead of Ug equal to 1.07. <o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>And in the second case I found a Uwin value of 1.22 for the same value of </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Ug equal to </span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>1.07</span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks a lot in advance for all your answers. <o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hps><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best regards,</span></span><span class=hps><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Pauline GELIN<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ingénieur Conception environnementale<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=79 height=52 id="Image_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CE5AE8.89B0F030" alt="cid:image004.jpg@01CE062A.F4C2C000"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=81 height=13 id="Image_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.jpg@01CE5AE8.89B0F030" alt="cid:image006.jpg@01CE062A.F4C2C000"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>10 avenue des canuts<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>69120 VAULX EN VELIN<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>T : 04.37.45.33.33 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ligne directe : 04.37.45.33.47<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="www.katene.coop"><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>www.katene.coop</span></b></a></span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.quadriplus-groupe.com"><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>www.quadriplus-groupe.com</span></b></a></span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.woopa.coop"><b><span style='color:#1F497D'>www.woopa.coop</span></b></a><b> <o:p></o:p></b></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Marion Hiller [<a href="mailto:hiller@transsolar.com">mailto:hiller@transsolar.com</a>] <br><b>Envoyé :</b> vendredi 18 mai 2012 08:49<br><b>À :</b> Pauline GELIN<br><b>Cc :</b> trnsys-users<br><b>Objet :</b> AW: Re: [TRNSYS-users] problem of windows and layers definitions<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE>Dear Pauline, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-GB>I had a quick look at your questions. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-GB>Concerning the definition of a window, we would like to know if Ug presented in the library already includes convective heat transfer coefficients (if so what value?) and the standard to which it is calculated ? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>è<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-GB>The Ug values presented in the German library related to products are the values you can find in the catalog.<br>This means including including convective + radiative heat transfer coefficients and are in general measuered under test condition<br>acc. to a standard. The values are shown such that the user can select a glass according to published properties.<br>These values are NOT used during the simulation! Type 56 uses the pane, gap properties as well as the pacer and frame properties<br>AND the real temperature conditions to calculate heat transfer through the window. <span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:18.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:18.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB>Best, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:18.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:18.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB>Marion <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:18.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE>Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE>TRANSSOLAR: KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäude <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE>Munich - New York - Stuttgart + 49.711.67976.0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE>Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE>Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347, Steuernummer 99073/00911, USt-IdNr.: DE152272639 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE>Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer, Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Bleicher <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br>Von: Pauline GELIN [<a href="mailto:p.gelin@katene.fr">mailto:p.gelin@katene.fr</a>] <br>Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Mai 2012 16:38<br>An: David BRADLEY; Matt Duffy <<a href="mailto:duffy@tess-inc.com">duffy@tess-inc.com</a>> (<a href="mailto:duffy@tess-inc.com">duffy@tess-inc.com</a>); trnsys-users (<a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a>)<br>Cc: Vincent MORELLE; Amélie MARILLER<br>Betreff: Re: [TRNSYS-users] problem of windows and layers definitions <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE>_______________________________________________ <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE>TRNSYS-users mailing list <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE><a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu">TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE><a href="https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users">https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>