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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: 10pt;">Dear Pauline,<br>
<br>
the U-Values you get out of the program Window are depending to the standard you use in window. The standards are typically assuming a fix temperature range in order to determine the static U-Value. If you are using TRNSYS to calculate the U-Value then this
is considering that e.g. the temperature of the outside is changing and so you get different U-Values depending to the time.
<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Christian<br>
<br>
<div style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div style="direction: ltr;" id="divRpF41624"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>Von:</b> trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu [trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu]" im Auftrag von "Pauline GELIN [p.gelin@katene.fr]<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 27. Mai 2013 14:43<br>
<b>Bis:</b> trnsys-users<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [TRNSYS-users] Persistent questioning about window definition<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Hello, </span>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Sorry to insist but I am really blocked by these questions of data. I am not at all sure of the TRNSYS simulations.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">Are</span></span><span class="shorttext"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">there no</span></span><span class="shorttext"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">one else who</span></span><span class="shorttext"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">has</span></span><span class="shorttext"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">met</span></span><span class="shorttext"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">these misunderstandings?</span></span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Pauline GELIN</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Ingénieur Conception environnementale</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#1F497D"><img id="_x0000_i1028" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CE5AE8.89B0F030" alt="cid:image004.jpg@01CE062A.F4C2C000" height="52" width="79"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><img id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image002.jpg@01CE5AE8.89B0F030" alt="cid:image006.jpg@01CE062A.F4C2C000" height="13" width="81"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">10 avenue des canuts</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">69120 VAULX EN VELIN</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">T : 04.37.45.33.33
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Ligne directe : 04.37.45.33.47</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><a href="UrlBlockedError.aspx" target="_blank"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">www.katene.coop</span></b></a></span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.woopa.coop" target="_blank"><b><span style="color:#1F497D">www.woopa.coop</span></b></a></span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">
</span></b></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Pauline GELIN
<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> jeudi 23 mai 2013 09:49<br>
<b>À :</b> trnsys-users<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Persistent questioning about window definition</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Hi,
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">Then</span></span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">
<span class="hps">I used</span> <span class="hps">a glass</span> <span class="hps">
that I had created</span> <span class="hps">from</span> <span class="hps">WINDOW6</span>
<span class="hps">software</span>, <span class="hps">it turned out</span> <span class="hps">
that the</span> <span class="hps">Uwin</span> value, <span class="hps">given</span>
<span class="hps">output by</span> T<span class="hps">RNBUILD</span> <span class="hps">
and</span> <span class="hps">used</span> <span class="hps">in the simulations,</span>
<span class="hps">did not</span> <span class="hps">correspond to</span> <span class="hps">
what I expected</span>, <span class="hps">result</span> <span class="hps">due to</span>
<span class="hps">the</span> <span class="hps">Ug</span> <span class="hps">value</span> from
<span class="hps">database</span> <span class="hps">and </span>percentage frame and Uframe filled in
<span class="hps">TRNBUILD</span>.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">After many tests, it appears that the calculated Uwin TRNBUILD differs if I take a glazing created in WINDOW6</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">,
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">for which I have not information of spacer and, or
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">a
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">glazing initially given in the TRNBUILD database</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">.
</span></span><span class="hps"><span lang="EN-US"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">While
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">Uframe percentage and spacer values indicated in my database windows are the same.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">Does anyone know where
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">does
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">this difference come from</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">?
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">What values of Uframe</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">,
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">and percentage
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">frame and
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">spacer</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">, does
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">TRNBUILD consider
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">:
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">those entries in the database glazings or those filled in the database window that is created for each project?</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">This misunderstanding
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">about the
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">values considered by
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">T</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">RNBUILD is not at all reassuring.
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">Especially when I tested a window created with WINDOW6 and one from the initial TRNBUILD database with 100% glass (so without frame).
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">And in the first case I found
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">a
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">Uwin value equal to 0.3 instead of Ug equal to 1.07.
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">And in the second case I found a Uwin value of 1.22 for the same value of
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Ug equal to
</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN">1.07</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Thanks a lot in advance for all your answers.
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Best regards,</span></span><span class="hps"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Pauline GELIN</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Ingénieur Conception environnementale</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#1F497D"><img id="Image_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CE5AE8.89B0F030" alt="cid:image004.jpg@01CE062A.F4C2C000" border="0" height="52" width="79"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><img id="Image_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.jpg@01CE5AE8.89B0F030" alt="cid:image006.jpg@01CE062A.F4C2C000" border="0" height="13" width="81"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">10 avenue des canuts</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">69120 VAULX EN VELIN</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">T : 04.37.45.33.33
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Ligne directe : 04.37.45.33.47</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><a href="UrlBlockedError.aspx" target="_blank"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">www.katene.coop</span></b></a></span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.quadriplus-groupe.com" target="_blank"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">www.quadriplus-groupe.com</span></b></a></span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.woopa.coop" target="_blank"><b><span style="color:#1F497D">www.woopa.coop</span></b></a><b>
</b></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Marion Hiller [<a href="mailto:hiller@transsolar.com" target="_blank">mailto:hiller@transsolar.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> vendredi 18 mai 2012 08:49<br>
<b>À :</b> Pauline GELIN<br>
<b>Cc :</b> trnsys-users<br>
<b>Objet :</b> AW: Re: [TRNSYS-users] problem of windows and layers definitions</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="DE">Dear Pauline, </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">I had a quick look at your questions. </span>
</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">Concerning the definition of a window, we would like to know if Ug presented in the library already includes convective heat transfer coefficients (if so what value?) and the standard to which it is calculated ?
</span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:36.0pt; text-indent:-18.0pt"><span style="font-family:Wingdings; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB"><span style="">è<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span lang="EN-GB">The Ug values presented in the German library related to products are the values you can find in the catalog.<br>
This means including including convective + radiative heat transfer coefficients and are in general measuered under test condition<br>
acc. to a standard. The values are shown such that the user can select a glass according to published properties.<br>
These values are NOT used during the simulation! Type 56 uses the pane, gap properties as well as the pacer and frame properties<br>
AND the real temperature conditions to calculate heat transfer through the window.
<span style="color:#1F497D"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB">Best, </span>
</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB">Marion </span>
</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="DE">Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="DE">TRANSSOLAR: KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäude
</span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="DE">Munich - New York - Stuttgart + 49.711.67976.0
</span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="DE">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart
</span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="DE">Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347, Steuernummer 99073/00911, USt-IdNr.: DE152272639
</span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="DE">Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer, Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Bleicher
</span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="DE">-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br>
Von: Pauline GELIN [<a href="mailto:p.gelin@katene.fr" target="_blank">mailto:p.gelin@katene.fr</a>]
<br>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Mai 2012 16:38<br>
An: David BRADLEY; Matt Duffy <<a href="mailto:duffy@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">duffy@tess-inc.com</a>> (<a href="mailto:duffy@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">duffy@tess-inc.com</a>); trnsys-users (<a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu" target="_blank">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a>)<br>
Cc: Vincent MORELLE; Amélie MARILLER<br>
Betreff: Re: [TRNSYS-users] problem of windows and layers definitions </span></p>
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