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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=FR link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Tom, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Actually you are right, I misunderstood your question and gave you the same equation you used.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As a second guess, I would say that your problem is in the definition of the variable “cooling need”. If I well understand, you compute cooling need by using the actual temperature calculated by type 56 and comparing it to your target temperature. This could be the reason of the bad behavior of your simulation and it is not necessary. Indeed, if your actual temperature is lower (in the case of cooling) of the target temperature, cooling need is zero anyway.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Try to remove this variable and rerun the simulation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hope this helps.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best regards,</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B'>Marcello Caciolo</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B'><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B'>Responsable Outils et Méthodes d'Analyse Energétique</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'><img width=170 height=62 id="Image_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CE4A51.6BE59EE0" alt="cid:image003.jpg@01CD4E08.954D04D0"><br><b><br></b>Cellule Efficacité Energétique et Environnementale - Pôle Projets et Réalisations<br>46 Boulevard de la Prairie au Duc<br>BP 40119 - 44201 Nantes Cedex 02</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>Tél.: +33 02 40 41 06 57</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><a href="mailto:prenom.nom@aximaseitha-gdfsuez.com"><span style='color:blue'>marcello.caciolo@cofelyaxima-gdfsuez.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#339966'>P</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#339966'> </span><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#339966'>Pensez à l'environnement avant d'imprimer ce message</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu] <b>De la part de</b> Tom B<br><b>Envoyé :</b> lundi 6 mai 2013 11:53<br><b>À :</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at the Solar Energy Lab, UW-Madison<br><b>Objet :</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Convergence errors with adaptive temperature limits<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Dear Marcello,<br> <br>First of all, thank you very much for your response, it is much appreciated. I tried your formula as well, but I'm afraid this is not the problem, because it still gives the same errors. This may be because the formula is in fact the same, just written down differently (because the part between brackets is reversed, the plus turns into a minus). I hope you or someone else may have another suggestion.<br> <br>Kind regards,<br> <br>Tom<br> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=stopSpelling></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From: <a href="mailto:marcello.caciolo@cofelyaxima-gdfsuez.com">marcello.caciolo@cofelyaxima-gdfsuez.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br>Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 10:50:59 +0200<br>Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Convergence errors with adaptive temperature limits<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Tom,</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think that your problem is in the definition of the cooling temperature. It should read : </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>T_Cool_On = 30 - Cooling_need*Cooling_schedule*(30 - Target_temperature)</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>In this way, cooling temperature is 30 when cooling need and/or cooling schedule are zero, and your target temperature when both cooling need and cooling schedule are 1.</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hope this helps.</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Best regards,</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B'>Marcello Caciolo</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B'><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#58595B'>Responsable Outils et Méthodes d'Analyse Energétique</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'><img border=0 width=170 height=62 id="ecxImage_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CE4A51.6BE59EE0" alt="cid:image003.jpg@01CD4E08.954D04D0"><br><b><br></b>Cellule Efficacité Energétique et Environnementale - Pôle Projets et Réalisations<br>46 Boulevard de la Prairie au Duc<br>BP 40119 - 44201 Nantes Cedex 02</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>Tél.: +33 02 40 41 06 57</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><a href="mailto:prenom.nom@aximaseitha-gdfsuez.com">marcello.caciolo@cofelyaxima-gdfsuez.com</a></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#339966'>P</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#339966'> </span><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#339966'>Pensez à l'environnement avant d'imprimer ce message</span></b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-color:currentColor currentColor'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu">trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu</a> [<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu">mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu</a>] <b>De la part de</b> Tom B<br><b>Envoyé :</b> samedi 4 mai 2013 13:39<br><b>À :</b> <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br><b>Objet :</b> [TRNSYS-users] Convergence errors with adaptive temperature limits</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Dear all,<br> <br>In short, I'm facing a problem in which I would like to use a formula for cooling which works perfectly for heating, but gives convergence errors when I apply it to my cooling temperature. It occurs when I'm using adaptive temperature limits in an energy calculation to find the efficiency of a certain shading device. I tried increasing the thermal capacitance to 5*1.2*1.007*roomvolume, the moisture capacitance to 7, I've used time steps varying from 5 minutes to 1 hour, but nothing works. Eventually this results in a fatal error, or if I increase the Limits drastically it only slows down my simulation enormously. I'm using Trnsys 17 by the way.<br> <br><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Problem description</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I've used a 4199.1 kJ/h for both heating and cooling, so given a floor area of 19.44m2 that would be 60W/m2. I've included a file of a project where I isolated this adaptive temperature limit and heating/cooling schedule, so without any shading. One of them shows the situation when there are no convergence errors, but T_Cool_On remains zero degrees, and the other one where in my mind the formula is correct, but convergence errors occur.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I think I found where the problem occurs, but I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I use a loop from type 56 to an equation, in which the acceptable indoor temperature depends on the outside temperature (people tollerate higher temperatures if it's warm outside as well), and is compared to the actual indoor temperature to see whether the cooling/heating should be on or off. This goes to another equation to incorporate the annual occupancy schedule for heating and cooling, which is then lead back to type 56. <br> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Heating goes fine, cooling becomes a problem</span></strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>Strangely enough, I use similar formulas for heating and cooling, and while heating does not give any problems, the cooling does. This is what I use:<br> <br>T_Heat_On = Heating_need*Heating_schedule*(Target_temperature - 15) + 15 --> 'need' and 'schedule' give either a 0 or 1, and in this way the heating goes on either when the indoor temperature drops below the target temperature while the building is occupied, or when the temperature drops below 15 degrees at any time.<br> <br>T_Cool_On = Cooling_need*Cooling_schedule*(Target_temperature - 30) + 30 --> I tried to do the same for cooling, so it would cool when it would become too hot, or when the temperature would rise above 30 degrees when the building is unoccupied. Strangely enough, this only works when I leave out the maximum of 30 degrees (so T_Cool_On = Cooling_need*Cooling_schedule*Target_temperature), but if I'm not mistaking, this means that at times when the building is not occupied or no cooling is needed, the T_Cool_On is equal to 0, meaning that the heating and cooling start to compete with each other because the cooling 'wants' a lower temperature than the heating.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Could someone please tell me what might cause this convergence error, and possibly also how to solve this? Thank you very much in advance!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Kind regards, Tom<br> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>_______________________________________________ TRNSYS-users mailing list <a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu">TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu</a> <a href="https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users">https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>