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Jean,<br>
The model looks at the full load performance file and determines
the chiller's nominal capacity (its rated capacity as adjusted by
the current entering conditions) and its nominal COP (rated COP
adjusted by the current entering conditions). It then determines how
much energy the chiller is required to produce and determines PLR =
qRequired/NominalCapacity. The model then goes looking in the PLR
file to see what the fraction of full load power is. In a way, the
model makes use of the kind of data that is available but you are
quite right in pointing out that the PLR table given by
manufacturers isn't entirely correct; part load performance isn't as
simple as a multiplier on full load performance. The only way I have
found to get that data from the manufacturer is to ask them to
generate a whole lot of performance points for different entering
conditions and for different loading conditions, then to assemble a
full performance map. Often manufacturers are willing to let you
have access to their selection software for a limited time so that
you can generate points yourself.<br>
Best,<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/14/2013 00:23,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jeannieboef@gmail.com">jeannieboef@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:C7136333-CB93-489D-98EC-43E4DF728A1F@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>Annoyingly, I also find the PLR data is the hardest to get. I
would also assume that Part Load performance is dependent on
conditions such as water entering and leaving temps just as the
full load table describes. But the PLR table is not built up
like that. It is simply a multiplier to the full load table.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How do you go about requesting this data from a
manufacturer? <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>
On 13.03.2013, at 16:19, David BRADLEY <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div> Dear Yeo,<br>
The sample file Samp_C.dat contains full load data for the
chiller and in our experience, at full load, most chiller
performance data looks about the same regardless of the type
of compressor. The other file (Samp_PLR.dat) contains the part
load data (the unloading data) and that does change from one
type of compressor to another. Unfortunately, I do not recall
what kind of chiller was used to develop the sample PLR data.
I am fairly certain that it was not a reciprocating compressor
and that it was either a screw or a rotary.<br>
Kind regards,<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/12/2013 21:58, #YEO KEAT
KEE# wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:E509F3B2D62E8945873C2ADAE6F1BAD364036DF2@SINPRD0111MB391.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com"
type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">All</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
am just wondering , when </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">David</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
mentioned that the normalized performance curves of
the water cooled chillers look about the same, does it
refer to a specific type of water cooled chiller, i.e.
Centrifugals, Screws or</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
does it refer to </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">the
normalized performance curves of </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">all
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">water
cooled chillers </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">in</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
genera</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">l,
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">regardless
of the type. </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
am using TRNSYS 16, and attached </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">is</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
the performance file that are default with the
program, does the relationship described in this file
applies to all types of water cooled chiller ? If not,
is it possible to find out what kind of chiller does
it describe ? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best
Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Yeo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> David BRADLEY [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 16 February, 2013 1:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jean Marais<br>
<b>Cc:</b> #YEO KEAT KEE#; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Type 666
Chiller Queries<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dear
Yeo,<br>
Jean's responses are all quite accurate. I wanted to add
a little bit to the discussion in the hopes that it
might make your life a little easier. Some years ago, we
participated in a research project in which we were
looking at whether the performance of certain pieces of
HVAC equipment can effectively be normalized. In other
words you look at the COP and capacity of a device at a
particular combination of inlet conditions and then
divide the COP and the capacity by the rated COP and
capacity for the device. Then you plot the normalized
performance over the entire operation range of the
equipment and you do the same for the same piece of
equipment from other manufacturers and of other rated
capacities. It turns out that some kinds of equipment
(particularly single stage heat pumps and both air and <span
style="color:red">water cooled chillers) normalize
very well meaning that their normalized performance
curves all look about the same</span>. Unloading (part
load ratio) curves can look a bit different but they
begin to look similar again if you first sort them by
compressor type (screw, rotary, etc.). Other pieces of
equipment do not look the same at all if you normalize
them (absorption chillers are a good example). <br>
<br>
The lesson in all this is that if you have a specific
chiller, it is best to get the manufacturer's data for
that chiller and to create a data file from it. If,
however, you just need a generic chiller, you can use
the default performance curves in the \Trnsys17\Tess
Models\SampleCatalogData\ directory and set the rated
capacity and COP parameters in the Type; you will be
quite close in your performance estimates.<br>
<br>
One other note; make sure that the rated capacity and
COP that you enter for parameters are at the same
conditions to which the external data file is
normalized. In other words, if the data file is
normalized to a 5C oulet chilled water temperature and a
16C inlet cooling water temperature then make sure that
the capacity and COP that you enter as the rated values
are at those same conditions. <br>
Best,<br>
David<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2/15/2013 07:10, Jean Marais
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Wow.
You stated these questions so well that I can only
think that you did so already knowing the answeres.<br>
1. You can't. You need a comprehensive data set from
your chiller supplier, specifying a matrix of COPs at
different water temperatures on supply and return side
as well as condenser supply and return side.<br>
2. This will be clear in the data set. It is very
possible.<br>
3. There is no mathematical thermal corrolation. It is
chiller dependant. It is a different data set.<br>
4. Yes. You'll need data at all the points where your
chiller may operate at. For example if you don't have
data for the chiller performance at less than 20% of
full rated capacity, then the simulation will issue a
warning when your chiller model is required to output
results at these conditions (most chillers will turn
off below 20% demand).<br>
5. Correct.<br>
I stand corrected on any points.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 15 February 2013 10:36, #YEO
KEAT KEE# <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:YEOK0031@e.ntu.edu.sg">YEOK0031@e.ntu.edu.sg</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">Dear Fellow Trnsys Users</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">I am a new user to Trnsys and is
modeling a water cooled chiller system using
type 666 as the chiller.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">I understand that if I want to
model a specific chiller model in the system,
I will have to make changes to the chiller
performance data file and the part load
performance data file.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">In the chiller performance data
file, I see that there the capacity ratio and
the COP ratio being defined as 1 at 7C Outlet
CHWT 30C INLET CWT.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">1.</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US">If I only have the performance
data of the chiller at 6.7C Outlet CHWT 29.4C
INLET CWT, how can I make use of this data to
input it into the chiller performance data
file?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">2.</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span>
<span lang="EN-US">Must the capacity ratio and
the COP ratio being defined as 1 at 7C Outlet
CHWT 30C INLET CWT, or can it be defined as 1
at other Outlet CHWT and Inlet CWT ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">3.</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span>
<span lang="EN-US">How does the part load ratio
data of the chiller relate to the different
Capacity Ratio and COP ratio ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">4.</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span>
<span lang="EN-US">In the parameter tab of the
type 666 chiller, it is stated that “The
capacity of the machine at its rated condition
(typically 30 C (85 F) inlet cooling water
temperature and 7 C (44 F) chilled water set
point temperature)The data file associated
with this model should be consistent with this
rating conditions.” . Does it mean that I have
to include the chiller performance at 7C
chilled water set point and 30C inlet cooling
water temperature in the chiller performance
data file ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">5.</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span>
<span lang="EN-US">In the chiller performance
data file, it is observed that the chiller
capacity ratio can be more than 1. Does this
means that the chiller current capacity is
higher than the rated capacity?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">Can anyone kindly advice on
the above mentioned queries ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> Thank You !</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> Best Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">KK Yeo</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>***************************<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>David BRADLEY<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Principal<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>22 North Carroll Street - suite 370<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Madison, WI 53703 USA<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>P:+1.608.274.2577<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>F:+1.608.278.1475<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a>
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