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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">David,<br>
thanks a lot. I´ll try to figure that out. Just a short question
before starting: In case I dont use a storage, the type 121a
(Furnace) will be replaced with my heat pump type, right ?? If I
use a storage tank, this one will replace my type121, won´t it ?
<br>
Michael <br>
<br>
<br>
Am 22.10.2012 16:53, schrieb David BRADLEY:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:50855DE7.7030403@tess-inc.com" type="cite">
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Michael,<br>
The HEATING and COOLING types that are built into TRNBuild and
Type56 are primarily used for computing the idealized heating and
cooling loads of the space. Those loads can then be imposed on a
system but the performance of the system is then dependent only on
that load, not on the delivery temperature or the room
temperature. This method of calculating system energy use is
called Energy Rate Control. What you are aiming for in your
simulation is something called Temperature Level Control where a
themostat senses room temperatures and sends control signals to
equipment. The equipment provides flows of hot or cold water and
air to the delivery devices and the room temperatures react
accordingly. The Type56 model is computing an energy balance on
the space that reacts to the delivery devices. You need to get
away from using the built-in idealized HEATING inputs and towards
defining the ventilation streams, active layers, and energy gains
that will cause the space temperature to go up or down. There is a
tutorial available that will step you through the basic process of
migrating from Energy Rate Control to Temperature Level Control.
Even though it does not directly apply to your radiator system, I
think it will help your understanding of the underlying concepts.<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://sel.me.wisc.edu/trnsys/downloads/tutorials_and_examples/tlc_tutorial17.pdf">http://sel.me.wisc.edu/trnsys/downloads/tutorials_and_examples/tlc_tutorial17.pdf</a><br>
<br>
Best,<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/20/2012 08:43, Michael
Diekerhof wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5082AA97.5080803@web.de" type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">David,<br>
Unfortunetaly I don´t have access to the TESS library. I´m
sorry but I dont understand what you were meaning with: <i>"If
you do not, then I would imagine that you might be able to
come up with a simplified set of equations that would give
you the gains to the space that you need. "</i><br>
<br>
Do you mean that I use the GAINS to adjust the radiative and
convective part ? But how to take the room temperature into
account by also considering the outlet temperature out of my
storage ?? Isn´t there also a way to work with HEATING INPUTS
?! I still dont have an idea how to cover my heat demand by
using the outlet temperature :( <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 19.10.2012 20:15, schrieb David BRADLEY:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:508198CE.2070803@tess-inc.com" type="cite">Michael,
<br>
Ideally, you need a radiator model that will deal with the
water side, take room temperature from Type56 and output the
convective and radiative gains to the space as outputs. Such a
model exists in the TESS HVAC library for Trnsys17 if you have
access to it (Type1231). If you do not, then I would imagine
that you might be able to come up with a simplified set of
equations that would give you the gains to the space that you
need. <br>
Best, <br>
David <br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/18/2012 09:24, Michael Diekerhof wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">David, <br>
<br>
thanks a lot. I´ll have a look. <br>
<br>
Could you please help me in another case. My plan is to
connect the HP to a storage tank and then giving a
temperature from the storage (type4) to my type56... How can
I realize that my type 56 can be heated to achieve a
constant room temperature of e.g. 20°C ?! <br>
<br>
Someone told me that I must use HEATING and then INPUT...
but what if i would like to simulate a simple radiator with
a simple inlet temperature of e.g. 55°C. <br>
<br>
Do you understand my problem? I dont know how to cover my
heat demand out of the storage. <br>
<br>
Thanks in advance <br>
<br>
Best, <br>
Michael <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 18.10.2012 16:16, schrieb David BRADLEY: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Michael, <br>
I would recommend that you look online at manufacturer's
sites for similarly sized heat pumps. Trane and Carrier
both have significant amounts of performance data in the
product literature parts of their sites. You can probably
get a good estimate of the flow rates on both the
condenser and evaporator sizes from them. <br>
Best, <br>
david <br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/18/2012 03:53, Michael Diekerhof wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear all, <br>
<br>
I´m working with the heat pump non-standard type 401 and
try to display an air-source heat pump. <br>
<br>
I dont have typical values for the Input 2 (evaporator
mass flowrate) and Input 4 (condenser mass flowrate). <br>
The only real connection I´m using is the dry bulb temp,
coming from type 15, as the evaporator inlet
temperature. For the massflowrates I would like to
assume constant values. <br>
<br>
How can I adjust an outlet condenser temperature of e.g.
55°C. Just about the massflowrates ?! <br>
<br>
Does anyone have experience with heat pump mass flow
rates?! I guess it´s not necessary to have expieriences
with Type 401. <br>
<br>
I´m thankful for any advices. <br>
<br>
Best, <br>
<br>
Michael <br>
_______________________________________________ <br>
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href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu">TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu</a>
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<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 18.10.2012 16:16, schrieb David BRADLEY: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Michael, <br>
I would recommend that you look online at manufacturer's
sites for similarly sized heat pumps. Trane and Carrier
both have significant amounts of performance data in the
product literature parts of their sites. You can probably
get a good estimate of the flow rates on both the
condenser and evaporator sizes from them. <br>
Best, <br>
david <br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/18/2012 03:53, Michael Diekerhof wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear all, <br>
<br>
I´m working with the heat pump non-standard type 401 and
try to display an air-source heat pump. <br>
<br>
I dont have typical values for the Input 2 (evaporator
mass flowrate) and Input 4 (condenser mass flowrate). <br>
The only real connection I´m using is the dry bulb temp,
coming from type 15, as the evaporator inlet
temperature. For the massflowrates I would like to
assume constant values. <br>
<br>
How can I adjust an outlet condenser temperature of e.g.
55°C. Just about the massflowrates ?! <br>
<br>
Does anyone have experience with heat pump mass flow
rates?! I guess it´s not necessary to have expieriences
with Type 401. <br>
<br>
I´m thankful for any advices. <br>
<br>
Best, <br>
<br>
Michael <br>
_______________________________________________ <br>
TRNSYS-users mailing list <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu">TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu</a>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users">https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a></pre>
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