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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=DE link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Anne-Kathrin,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>as cold bridges are either linear or punctual, the dimension of the resistance for the cold bridge effect must be – to my understanding –either [hmK/kJ] or [hK/kJ].<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you are analyzing the cold bridges of a building envelope in detail, you would work out the length of connections between adjacent building elements, length of window sills or balcony slabs, the perimeter of windows, etc., so you normally would enter the length of the cold bridge.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If I understand you right, you want to consider the cold bridges by a common additional value (according to DIN 4108-2). In such a case, I would define a resistance for the cold bridge and then I would determine, dependent on the area of the external elements, which are affected by the addition value, the total transmission losses due to cold bridges. Based on the defined resistance and the determined transmission looses, you can calculate the equivalent length of the cold bridge. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In a previous post, David Bradley addressed that problem with the dimensions of the u-value in the context with cold bridges. He explained that the displayed u-value in the wall type manager is incorrect, however, as the u-value displayed in the wall type manager is not used in the calculation, this error would not affect the results. (see also following mail).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Johannes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='margin-left:3.0pt;border-collapse:collapse;border:none'><tr><td style='border:solid gray 1.0pt;border-right:none;padding:7.5pt 7.5pt 7.5pt 7.5pt'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='margin-left:3.0pt;border-collapse:collapse;border:none'><tr><td style='border:solid gray 1.5pt;padding:3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:3.0pt;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Johannes Schrade</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br>Abteilung Wärmetechnik<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:3.0pt;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Fraunhofer-Institut für Bauphysik<br>Nobelstr. 12<br>70569 Stuttgart<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:3.0pt;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:johannes.schrade@ibp.fraunhofer.de"><span style='color:blue'>johannes.schrade@ibp.fraunhofer.de</span></a><br>Telefon 0711 / 970-3416<br>Telefax 0711 / 970-3399<br><a href="http://www.ibp.fraunhofer.de/wt/" target="_blank"><span style='color:blue'>www.ibp.fraunhofer.de/wt/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></td><td style='border:solid gray 1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:7.5pt 7.5pt 7.5pt 7.5pt'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='margin-left:3.0pt;border-collapse:collapse;border:none'><tr><td style='border:solid gray 1.5pt;padding:3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:3.0pt;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Johannes Schrade</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br>Department Heat Technology <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:3.0pt;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Fraunhofer Institute for Building Physics<br>Nobelstr. </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>12<br>70569 Stuttgart, Germany<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:3.0pt;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:johannes.schrade@ibp.fraunhofer.de"><span style='color:blue'>johannes.schrade@ibp.fraunhofer.de</span></a><br>Phone +49 711 / 970-3416<br>Fax +49 711 / 970-3399<br><a href="http://www.ibp.fraunhofer.de/wt/" target="_blank"><span style='color:blue'>www.ibp.fraunhofer.de/wt/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Mattieu,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> I think that the wall type manager is where the incorrect units are <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>displayed. My understanding is that a coldbridge does not have any <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>thickness but it does have a length. For example, if you want to make a <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>coldbridge to represent the lack of insulation where two exterior walls <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>are joined, you would define a coldbridge that has the length of the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>joint. The resistance you enter should be in kJ/h.m.K (where the length <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>is the length of the bridge). The error in TRNBuild is that the wall <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>type manager should change the units of u-value when a coldbridge wall <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>is displayed. Note that since the u-value displayed in the wall type <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>manager is not actually used in calculation, that this error should not <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>affect your results.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> David<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>matthieu duclos wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> Dear Trnsys Users,<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i><o:p> </o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> I have a problem about a bug for thermal bridge, I find an answer in <o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> the archives but ...:<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i><o:p> </o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i><o:p> </o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> Hi Nicola,<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i><o:p> </o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> nicola wrote:<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> > Dear all,<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> > I'm modelling a wall wit a thermal bridge effect.<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> > I found a bug in TRNBuilt :<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> > 1. If I put the value of resistence equal to xxx (hmK/kJ) in the layer<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> > manager, the program create a wall with a U-value expressed in kJ/h<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> > m^2K and a resistence equal to xxx in hm^2k/kJ!!!<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> Thanks for finding this bug. I think it is only a problem of displaying<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> the units. The resistance should be entered in h m^2K /kJ, and not h m<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> K /kJ. When you check on the 'Layer type manager', the resistance is<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> shown in h m^2K /kJ.<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> > 2. the u-value of a wall with thermal bridge effect is lower than the<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> > same wall without thermal bridge effect.<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> The u-value displayed in the 'Wall type manager' is calculated by adding<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> two reference heat transfer coefficients to the wall (7.7 and 25 W/m^2 <o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> K).<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i><o:p> </o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> Best regards,<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i><o:p> </o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> Diego<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i><o:p> </o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i><o:p> </o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> ... in "Walls" when I choose a coldbridge I can put the value for <o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> length in m , not a surface in m^2.<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i><o:p> </o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> What is the solution?<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> If the solution is all in m^2, how can I change a linear thermal <o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> bridge to surface thermal bridge?<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i><o:p> </o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> Thanks in advance,<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i><o:p> </o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><i> Matt<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Von:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu] <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Anne-Kathrin.Albrecht@ise.fraunhofer.de<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 16. Juli 2012 16:46<br><b>An:</b> trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu<br><b>Betreff:</b> [TRNSYS-users] Thermal bridges/Cold bridges in TRNBuild<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Dear Users,</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I know that this problem has been discussed before so I know that there is a bug, but am not sure how to handle it:</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>1. When you add a new massless layer with coldbridge effect you have to enter the "resistancy" in hmK/(kJ). Do you actually have to enter the resistancy, which would be in hm²K/(kJ) or does TRNBuild asks for the conductivity, which would be in hmK/(kJ)?</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>2. The layer type manager shows the same value for "resistancy" as typed in before in hm²K/(kJ). It´s just a problem of showing the units right, isn´t it? So is it actually the resistancy that is shown in both cases?</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>3. What is meant by the length? Is it the part where the walls connect or is it the edge length? Independently of the entered value of the length, the u-value doesn´t change. How does TRNBuild calculate with this value?</span> <br><br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I would like to add a common used factor of 0,05 W/(m²K) for all surface areas. How do I implement that?</span> <br><br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thank you very much for you help in advance,</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Anne</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>