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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=PL link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Dear Marion,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>so cold bridge module is not useful in this case – am I right?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Karol <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Marion Hiller [mailto:hiller@transsolar.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 13, 2012 10:13 AM<br><b>To:</b> karol.bandurski<br><b>Cc:</b> trnsys-users<br><b>Subject:</b> AW: RE: [TRNSYS-users] cold bridge<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Dear Karol,</span><span lang=DE> </span><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'>1) You recommend to set resistance of whole wall (include cold bridge) in “cold bridge window” (hmK/kJ) or resistance of “massless wall” (hm^2K/kJ). It doesn't matter which way will be chosen, dimension of element will be the same and only units will change m<->m^2.</span><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>No, you need the thermal mass. The adjustment really depend on your wall construction.</span><span lang=EN-GB> </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>It is more adjusting the u-value of layer (if poassible) and thereby of a wall.</span><span lang=EN-GB> </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>For a wall with insulation I would increase the u-value for the insulation such that it includes the loss of the cold bridge.</span><span lang=EN-GB> </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Best regards,</span><span lang=EN-GB> </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Marion</span><span lang=EN-GB> </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#005A00'>Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller </span></b><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#009900'><br></span></b><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#007000'>TRANSSOLAR: KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäude </span></b><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#005A00'><br>Munich - New York - Stuttgart + 49.711.67976.0 <br><br></span></b><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart <br>Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347, Steuernummer 99073/00911, USt-IdNr.: DE152272639</span></b><span lang=DE> <span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer, Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Bleicher </span></b><span lang=DE> </span><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='color:navy'> </span><span lang=DE> </span><span lang=DE style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span lang=DE style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span lang=DE style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><span lang=DE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Von:</span></b><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Karol Bandurski <a href="mailto:[mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl]">[mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl]</a> <br><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 13. Juli 2012 10:06<br><b>An:</b> Marion Hiller<br><b>Cc:</b> 'trnsys-users'<br><b>Betreff:</b> RE: [TRNSYS-users] cold bridge</span><span lang=DE> </span><span lang=DE style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'>Dear Marion,</span><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'>Thank you very much for your explanation!</span><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'>If I understand:</span><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'>1) You recommend to set resistance of whole wall (include cold bridge) in “cold bridge window” (hmK/kJ) or resistance of “massless wall” (hm^2K/kJ). It doesn't matter which way will be chosen, dimension of element will be the same and only units will change m<->m^2.</span><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'>2) In both case element will be massless. So what can I do to account mass and heat capacity of wall and cold bridge?</span><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'>Regards,</span><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'>Karol</span><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#4F81BD'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Marion Hiller <a href="mailto:[mailto:hiller@transsolar.com]">[mailto:hiller@transsolar.com]</a> <br>Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 9:03 AM<br>To: karol.bandurski<br>Cc: trnsys-users<br>Subject: AW: [TRNSYS-users] cold bridge <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Karol, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>If you define a "cold bridge" in TRNbuild the following happens: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>- Instead of defining layers as for a wall you define a "thermal resistance" <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>(without mass effects) <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>- Instead of setting an area as for a wall you define a lenght <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>However, in the end this cold bridge is treated as "a massless wall". <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>If you use a detailed radiation mode, you can't add surfaces (and a cold bridge would be surface somehow) in order to keep the geometry consistent. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>It is not recommended to draw very small surfaces in T3d to represent the cold bridge unless you need the inside surface temperature because very small surfaces may cause trouble for matrix generation. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Therefore, the recommendation is to integrate the losses of a cold bridge into the wall by adjusting the u-value of a wall as previously mentioned by Adrien. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I hope this helps. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Best regards, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Marion <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>TRANSSOLAR: KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäude Munich - New York - Stuttgart + 49.711.67976.0 <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347, Steuernummer 99073/00911, USt-IdNr.: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>DE152272639 <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer, Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Bleicher <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Von: Karol Bandurski <a href="mailto:%5bmailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl%5d"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>[mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl]</span></a> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Juli 2012 18:25 <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>An: <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</span></a> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Betreff: [TRNSYS-users] cold bridge <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>_______________________________________________ <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>TRNSYS-users mailing list <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu</span></a> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><a href="https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users</span></a> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>