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Pauline,<br>
<br>
On 5/16/2012 09:38, Pauline GELIN wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:11E83A53757D4E42BAB9B7808BC3D14327AF75FA78@VEV-MES1.KATENE.local"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Hello,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">I am so sorry to </span><span class="hps"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN">insist</span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN"> <span class="hps">but,</span> <span class="hps">despite</span>
<span class="hps">several tests,</span> <span class="hps">I</span>
<span class="hps">can not</span> <span class="hps">find the
answers</span> <span class="hps">to my questions</span> <span
class="hps">from the previous</span> <span class="hps">mail.</span>
<span class="hps">Does anyone</span> <span class="hps">even</span>
<span class="hps">just have an idea</span> <span
class="hps">of quick answer ?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN">I</span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN"> <span class="hps">also</span> <span class="hps">appeal
to you</span> <span class="hps">about</span> <span
class="hps">another</span> <span class="hps">problem I
have</span> <span class="hps">with each project</span> <span
class="hps">on</span> <span class="hps">TRNSYS</span>. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN">When</span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN"> <span class="hps">I define</span> <span
class="hps">a set temperature</span> <span class="hps">at
a specific time</span> <span class="hps">(</span>eg 20 <span
class="hps">°</span> <span class="hps">C</span> <span
class="hps">at 7am</span>), <span class="hps">the
temperature</span> <span class="hps">zones</span> <span
class="hps">does not reach</span> <span class="hps">20 °</span>
<span class="hps">C</span> <span class="hps">at</span> <span
class="hps">7am</span> <span class="hps">but</span> <span
class="hps">an hour later.</span> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN">It seems that, at 7 am, the temperature is</span></span><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color:
windowtext;" lang="EN"> <span class="hps">rather</span> <span
class="hps">than the average</span> <span class="hps">value</span>
<span class="hps">between</span> <span class="hps">the</span>
past temperature and the set temperature.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
The answer depends a bit on how you are defining your set
temperatures (whether you are using a SCHEDULE in Type56/TRNBuild,
whether you are using an equation, whether you are using a
thermostat component such as Type108, whether your building is in
energy rate control or temperature level control). If you can give
me some more information about how you are setting your temperature,
I can give you a more specific answer.<br>
<br>
A couple other things to keep in mind: 1) The online plotter shows
linear interpolations between points because it only plots one point
per timestep. If you are running with a 1 hour timestep and the
temperature is 18 at 6AM and 20 at 7AM, you will see a line
connecting these two points, even if there was a setpoint change at
7AM. If you hold down both the CTRL and SHIFT keys while looking at
the online plot, you will see the actual (not the interpolated)
values of your variables appear and you will see that while the
plotter shows a linear increase from one point to the next, in fact
it went through a step change. 2) TRNSYS's outputs <i>are </i>in
fact the average values over a timestep so what you are seeing may
indeed be correct. <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:11E83A53757D4E42BAB9B7808BC3D14327AF75FA78@VEV-MES1.KATENE.local"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color:
windowtext;" lang="EN"><span class="hps">Do we have to </span> <span
class="hps">clarify</span> <span class="hps">something (a
field) about</span> <span class="hps">the component</span>
<span class="hps">type 9</span>,used to read <span
class="hps">the</span> <span class="hps">text file</span>
<span class="hps">with</span> <span class="hps">the set
temperatures</span> <span class="hps">for each hour</span>
<span class="hps">of the year </span>?</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
I am not sure what you mean by this. Type9 reads the text file and
you need to tell it (for each column that it reads) whether the
value it is reading is an average over the data interval or an
instantaneous value at the end of the data interval. You also need
to specify whether the Type9 should be interpolated or not if your
simulation time step is shorter than your data interval.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:11E83A53757D4E42BAB9B7808BC3D14327AF75FA78@VEV-MES1.KATENE.local"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color:
windowtext;" lang="EN"><span class="hps">Another issue
related</span> <span class="hps">to the last</span>, I
created <span class="hps">a schedule</span> <span
class="hps">where</span> <span class="hps">the value, I</span>
<span class="hps">want to have</span> <span class="hps">between</span>
<span class="hps">six</span> <span class="hps">and</span> <span
class="hps">seven am, is written at 7 am</span>,<span
class="hps"> according to</span> <span class="hps">the
documents</span> <span class="hps">I thought TRNSYS read
the value for the</span> before <span class="hps">hour.
Is</span> <span class="hps">this true?</span></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
In order to interpolate properly, Type9 keeps track of the time at
which the last read occurred and the time at which the next read
will occur. It keeps track of two values, the currently read value
and the value at the time of the next read (again this only comes
into play when your data interval and your timestep are not the
same).<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
David<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:11E83A53757D4E42BAB9B7808BC3D14327AF75FA78@VEV-MES1.KATENE.local"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN"><span class="hps"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">De :</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Pauline GELIN <br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> jeudi 3 mai 2012 17:33<br>
<b>À :</b> 'David BRADLEY'; 'Matt Duffy
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:duffy@tess-inc.com"><duffy@tess-inc.com></a> (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:duffy@tess-inc.com">duffy@tess-inc.com</a>)';
'trnsys-users (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a>)'<br>
<b>Objet :</b> problem of windows and layers definitions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">Hello, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">Using TRNSYS and TRNBUILD for many projects in
our office, </span><span class="hps"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN">we have two</span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN"> <span class="hps">basic questions</span> with no
<span class="hps">answers</span> <span class="hps">in
manuals or forum:</span></span><span class="hps"><span
lang="EN"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span class="hps"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN">Concerning the definition</span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN"> <span class="hps">of a</span> <span
class="hps">window</span>, <span class="hps">we would
like to</span> <span class="hps">know if</span> <span
class="hps">Ug</span> <span class="hps">presented</span>
<span class="hps">in the library</span> <span class="hps">already
includes</span> <span class="hps">convective heat
transfer</span> <span class="hps">coefficients</span> <span
class="hps">(</span>if so <span class="hps">what value?</span>)
<span class="hps">and</span> <span class="hps">the
standard to which</span> <span class="hps">it is
calculated</span> ? </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:windowtext" lang="EN-US"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
class="hps"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN">Is this the</span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN"> <span class="hps">exact value</span> <span
class="hps">which is then used</span> <span class="hps">to
calculate the</span> Uw <span class="hps">overall
coefficient window</span> (<span class="hps">taking</span>
<span class="hps">the frame,</span> <span class="hps">the
choice</span> <span class="hps">of spacer</span> <span
class="hps">and</span> <span class="hps">also</span>
the precise convective heat <span class="hps">transfer
coefficients</span> <span class="hps">asked)</span>?</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:windowtext" lang="EN-US"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
class="hps"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN">How</span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN"> <span class="hps">these coefficients</span> <span
class="hps">are they</span> <span class="hps">mathematically
used</span> <span class="hps">(only</span> <span
class="hps">for</span> <span class="hps">the frame or</span>
<span class="hps">also</span> for the glazing already <span
class="hps">impacted</span> <span class="hps">by other</span>
coefficients if I’m righ<span class="hps">t</span>)?</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
class="hps"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">Concerning values of layers, and especially
insulation materials, </span><span class="hps"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN">it seems that the</span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN"> user <span class="hps">library</span> saves<span
class="hps"> only</span> <span class="hps">two</span> <span
class="hps">decimal places</span> <span class="hps">for
conductivity.</span> <span class="hps">If we specify</span>
<span class="hps">three</span> <span class="hps">digits</span>,
<span class="hps">the value is rounded</span> <span
class="hps">and if</span> we add <span class="hps">manually</span>
<span class="hps">three</span> <span class="hps">decimal
places</span> <span class="hps">in the file</span>
(opened by <span class="hps">a</span> <span class="hps">notepad)</span>,
<span class="hps">only the first two</span> <span
class="hps">are</span> <span class="hps">considered.</span>
<span class="hps">How can we</span> <span class="hps">fix
this?</span><br>
<span class="hps">Indeed, to</span> convert and <span
class="hps">distinguish accurately</span> <span
class="hps">conductivity values</span> <span
class="hps">for materials, it</span> <span
class="hps">is necessary to have</span> <span
class="hps">three</span> <span class="hps">decimal
places.</span></span><span class="hps"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN">Thank you very much for your help.</span></span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN"> </span></span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN">Best regards, </span></span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN"> </span></span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN">Pauline Gelin</span></span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="hps"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN">Fluid and Environmental design engineer</span></span><span
class="hps"><span lang="EN"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="width:473.25pt;border-collapse:collapse" border="0"
cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="631">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:104.65pt;border:solid #F79646
2.25pt;border-right:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"
valign="top" width="140">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:-7.1pt;text-align:center"
align="center"><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#31849B;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:7.1pt;text-align:center"
align="center"><b><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#31849B"><img
id="Image_x0020_5"
src="cid:part1.02090601.04010906@tess-inc.com"
alt="Description :
cid:image007.jpg@01CC9EDB.F49EDC60"
height="70" width="125"></span></b><b><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#31849B;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#31849B"><img
id="Image_x0020_18"
src="cid:part2.03060907.06080706@tess-inc.com"
alt="Description : Description : Description :
Description : Description : logo Woopa"
height="22" width="133"></span></b><b><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#31849B;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
<td style="width:13.0cm;border:solid #F79646
2.25pt;border-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"
width="491">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#F79646;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">KATENE<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#F79646;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#F79646;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">10
avenue des Canuts – 69120 VAULX EN VELIN<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:3.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:1.7pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#F79646;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">0437453347</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#FFC000;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#31849B;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a></pre>
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