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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=FR link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Damien and Karol,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I agree that the way TRNSYS treats airflow rates between zones could appear misleading. The main concept is that Type 56 has no airflow model (at least if you do not have TRNFLOW). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Indeed, Type 56 needs to know only incoming air, as it assumes, in order to assume air balance of ONE ZONE, that </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'>An equal amounts of air is assumed to leave the airnode at the airnode temperature. </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The destination of the leaving air has no interest from the point of view of the zone.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you have two zones without infiltrations and ventilation, and one opened door between them, there will be an air exchange between the two zones. For mass balance, the mass airflow rate going from zone A to zone B should be the same than the mass airflow rate from zone B to A. However, in this case, type 56 DOES NOT CHECK air balance, then it is to you to define the two airflow rates with the same value. This is the meaning of the sentence in the section 5.4.1.2: </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'>coupling air flow from B to A is not defined automatically.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Therefore, your last sentence is correct, Karol: </span><span class=apple-style-span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>if you define air from A to B as coupling flow then TRNBuild assume that the same amount of air leaves zone B, BUT IT DOES NOT ASSUME that this air is going to zone A.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>About the difference between coupling air flow through wall and between air node, I think that there Is no difference. The possibility to have coupling air flow between nodes has be introduced in TRNSYS 17 because two air nodes could have no adjacent walls.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Best regards.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>Marcello CACIOLO</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'><br>Responsable Outils et Méthodes d'Analyse Energétique <br>___________________________________________________ <br><br><img width=176 height=59 id="Image_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CCA604.81872720" alt="logo AximaSeitha"><br><b><br>Cellule Efficacité Energétique<o:p></o:p></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>Direction Commerciale<b> <br></b>46 Boulevard de la Prairie au Duc BP 40119<br>44000 Nantes Cédex 2<br>Tel. 02 40 41 06 57</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'><br>mail: <a href="marcello.caciolo@aximaseitha-gdfsuez.com">marcello.caciolo@aximaseitha-gdfsuez.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br></span></u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'><a href="www.aximaseitha-gdfsuez.com">www.aximaseitha-gdfsuez.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#339966'>P</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#339966'> </span><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#339966'>Pensez à l'environnement avant d'imprimer ce message</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu] <b>De la part de</b> Karol Bandurski<br><b>Envoyé :</b> vendredi 18 novembre 2011 13:37<br><b>À :</b> 'Damien Gondre'<br><b>Cc :</b> trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu<br><b>Objet :</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] energy bilans for Type 56<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PL style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'>Damien,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PL style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'>There is something not clear corresponding to issue of coupling flow.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'>On one hand we have information from section 5.4.1.2 in Multizone Building Manual, page 145 that if I define coupling flow from A to B then I have to take care about balance on my own because coupling air flow from B to A is not defined automatically.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'>On the other hand there is information in section 5.4.1.11, page 156 (similar to ventilation issue, but a few sentences later, corresponding to coupling air flow): "An equal amounts of air is assumed to leave the airnode at the airnode temperature".<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'>Thirdly I hope that we distinguish coupling air flow through wall (p.125 section 5.2.11.8.5. - this is in the range of my interest) and coupling flow between two airnodes of one zone (p.85 section 5.2.4.10.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'>My previous statement should read:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>“But if you define air from A to B as coupling flow then TRNBuild assume that the same amount of air leave zone B </span></span><span class=apple-style-span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#00B050'>as QTRANS</span></span><span class=apple-style-span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>.</span></span><span lang=EN-US>”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'>We are looking for Big Explanatory! ;)<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00B050'>Karol<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=PL style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=PL style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> damien.gondre@gmail.com [mailto:damien.gondre@gmail.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Damien Gondre<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 18, 2011 11:05 AM<br><b>To:</b> Karol Bandurski<br><b>Cc:</b> trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] energy bilans for Type 56<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PL><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PL><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Hi Karol,</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>I had the same questions a while ago and someone else would probably gives you more trustable answers than me. But I will try to answer you with what I figured out (someone please corrects me if I'm wrong).</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>"It is mean that if I introduce some supply air (ventilation manager) in zone then TRNBuild assume that there is also exhaust air?" </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>This is true. If you introduce in zone A 50m<sup>3</sup>/h of air at T<sub>out</sub> for instance, Trnsys will assume that the same amount of air (50m<sup>3</sup>/h) leaves zone A at temperature of zone A (T_A).</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>"Then you define ventilation for zone B and parameters of air will be taken from zone A"</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>That is what I would naturally do but it actually causes convergence problems: if you use T_A to define parameters of air supplied to zone B by the ventilation type, you will use an output of type 56 as an input to type 56. Air supplied in zone B will change temperature in zone B and it will affect temperature in zone A (since zone A and B have an adjacent wall). Then the temperature of air supplied in zone B will change and it will change temperature in zone B and… temperature in zone A (and so on…). </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>If you still want to do that, you need to use type 93 (input value recall) to supply air with temperature of zone A at timestep (t-1), in zone B at timestep (t).</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span class=apple-style-span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>“But if you define air from A to B as coupling flow then TRNBuild assume that the same amount of air leave zone B as coupling flow, not as exhaust air</span></span><span lang=EN-US>”</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>That is not true. If you define air from A to B as a coupling flow TRNBuild doesn’t assume automatically that the same amount of air flows from B to A. (See the note in section 5.4.1.2 in Multizone Building Manual, page 145). When you use coupling flows you have to perform air balance by yourself which means that if you define a coupling from A to B, you will overload zone B. </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US>How do you define <u>exhaust air</u> in zone B to balance the coupling flow from zone A?</span></b><span lang=EN-US> I don’t know :). Maybe someone else can tell us more about this… I’m looking for this answer too!</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Damien.</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=PL><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PL>On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Karol Bandurski <<a href="mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl">karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi!</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks for this quotation Damien but I don’t understand what is mean.</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It is mean that if I introduce some supply air (ventilation manager) in zone then TRNBuild assume that there is also exhaust air? </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Let us assume the situation:</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have ventilator in zone A but there is no ventilator in zone B. Between zone A and B is wall with door. I calculated that air supply to zone A flows to zone B.</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This quotation say to me (in above situation):</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>you should define ventilation for zone A (supply air) then TRNBuild assumes the same amount of exhaust air for this zone but without any destination. Then you define ventilation for zone B and parameters of air will be taken from zone A, TRNBuild again assume the same amount of exhaust air, without any destination. But if you define air from A to B as coupling flow then TRNBuild assume that the same amount of air leave zone B as coupling flow, not as exhaust air.</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>1)</span></b><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></b><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> It is true???</span></b><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If YES: </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>2)</span></b><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></b><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What does TRNBuild assume for infiltration? If during infiltration air is supplied to zone then how it is ejected form there? </span></b><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3)</span></b><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></b><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If coupling flow is assumed then air “leave” part of its heat in wall? (because wall has some heat capacity)</span></b><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:18.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks again Damien for you tip, but</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I am asking for more explanation!</span></b><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Karol</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Damien Gondre [mailto:<a href="mailto:damien.gondre@insa-ly" target="_blank">damien.gondre@insa-ly</a></span><span lang=PL style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a href="http://on.fr" target="_blank">on.fr</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:26 PM<br><b>To:</b> Karol Bandurski<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu" target="_blank">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] energy bilans for Type 56</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL>Hi Karol,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL>I have never used energy balances for zones so I don't know what Qvent, Qtrans or Qsolgain represent, but have you looked in the multizone building manual, section 5.4.1.11, page 156 : "Equal amounts of air are assumed to leave the airnode at the airnode temperature".<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL>I don't know if it helps or not, but I think it might change your vision of how the energy balance is defined.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL>Damien.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=PL> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL>On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Karol Bandurski <<a href="mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl" target="_blank">karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>I has modeled two version of one family house: </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US>a. with mechanical ventilation</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US>b. with natural ventilation + exhaust fans in dirty rooms (bathroom, WC, Kitchen) </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Then I has define balance output Ntype 904 (Energy Balance for Zones) for one zone of this house.</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>The balance is seems to me false because in TRNBuild in Ventilation Manager I can define only supply air ventilation. So, QVENT represents only heat from supply air, heat connect with exhaust air is probably contained in QTRANS. QTRANS has influence on temperature of walls, so maybe QSOLGAIN is also not so accurate? </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>My question:</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>It is true? </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>How can I change it?</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Does TRNFlow change this imperfection? (I don’t have this soft, I has only Contam)</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Regards,</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Karol</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>------------------------------------------------</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Karol Bandurski MSc.</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL style='background:white'><a href="http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/" target="_blank"><span lang=EN-US style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>Institute of Environmental Engineering</span></a></span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='background:white'>Poznan University of Technology</span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL style='background:white'><a href="http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/" target="_blank"><span lang=EN-US>www.ee.put.poznan.pl</span></a></span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL style='background:white'><a href="http://www.put.poznan.pl/" target="_blank">www.put.poznan.pl</a></span><span lang=PL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=PL><br>_______________________________________________<br>TRNSYS-users mailing list<br><a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu" target="_blank">TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br><a href="https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users" target="_blank">https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=PL> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PL><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p></p>
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