<div>Dear David,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>As I said yesterday, I linked PID's output Control Signal to a minus 1 then to OF. The results are still very <font color="#3333ff"><strong>WEIRD. <span id="goog_256161258"></span><span id="goog_256161259"></span></strong><font color="#000000">OF becomes minus value which is not reasonable very much i.e. the window is open towards abnormal direction; CO2 concentration is not decreasing as we hoped, however, it is becoming much more bigger e.g. 4000 ppm.</font></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>Now, I only would like a solution for this problem as I said in last email and the adequate explanations for this OF_CO2 concentration_PID control issue.</div>
<div class="im">
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Many thanks in advance!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>br</div>
<div> </div>
<div>wang</div></div></div>
<div><font color="#3333ff"></font> </div>
<div><font color="#3333ff"> <br></font></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/11/15 王洋 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wanghongyang1767@gmail.com">wanghongyang1767@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div>Dear David,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Many thanks for your reply!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I already saw both of them as you mentioned, however, they are not helpful for my simulation results i.e. they don't explain the things I wanted.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Your heating/cooling example is very vivid. Do you mean I need add an equation after the PID i.e. link PID's output Control Signal to a minus 1 then to OF? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Now, I only would like a solution for this problem as I said in last email and the adequate explanations for this OF_CO2 concentration_PID control issue.</div>
<div class="im">
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Many thanks in advance!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>br</div>
<div> </div>
<div>wang</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br> </div></div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/11/14 David BRADLEY <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Wang,<br> You should already have the source code for the PID controller in ..\TrnsysXX\SourceCode\Types\. I would also recommend reading the Type23 section of the 04-MathematicalDescription manual.<br>
<br> PID controllers can operate in one of two ways: they can generate a greater signal value if the sampled input value is below the set point or they can generate a greater signal value if the sampled input is above the current set point. Imagine a heating application with a PID controller. As the zone temperature falls, you want the PID to give you a bigger and bigger signal. Now imagine a cooling application. As the zone temperature rises, you want the PID to give you a bigger and bigger signal. You may have to add an equation after the PID to invert its control signal if it is acting the opposite of the way that you want.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>David</font>
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br><br>On 11/14/2011 04:28, wangyang wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Dear all,</div>
<div> </div>
<div> I have a question about PID controller in TRNSYS for its developer.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> Which expert knows PID controller in TRNSYS developer? Or Which expert could pass me the source code of PID controller or its internal algorithm etc.? I guess PID controller in TRNSYS is based on empirical equation or iterative algorithm. Since there is <strong><font color="#3333ff">very weird</font></strong> simulation results i.e. I set the set point CO2 concentration 1000 ppm as PID controller's set point; its control signal links to Opening Factor (OF) of windows; indoor CO2 concentration links to PID's controlled variable. However, when indoor CO2 concentration is less than set point 1000 ppm, PID begins to activate OF i.e. windows are open. But based on PID principle, as we know, if CO2 concentration is not getting to set point 1000 ppm, at this time windows are open will result in <font color="#3333ff"><strong>the ERROR</strong></font> (between the set point and actual indoor CO2 concentration)<font color="#3333ff"><strong> increasing. </strong><font color="#000000">So I'm puzzled! Please PID controller in TRNSYS developer or other experts explain this weird phenomenon!</font></font></div>
<div><font color="#3333ff"> </font><font color="#000000"> Many thanks in advance!</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font color="#000000"> br</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font color="#3333ff"><font color="#000000"> wang</font></font></div>
<div><br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/11/12 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu" target="_blank">trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu</a>></span><br>
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<br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."<br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: (no subject) (David BRADLEY)<br> 2. Re: TRNSYS3D Shading on Walls? (David BRADLEY)<br>
3. Re: how to identify a wall that is adjacent two walls<br> (David BRADLEY)<br> 4. Error in reading type 51 external performance File<br> (Walif M'kacher)<br><br><br>---------- 已转发邮件 ----------<br>From: David BRADLEY <<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>><br>
To: Erik Boschek <<a href="mailto:erikboschek@yahoo.com" target="_blank">erikboschek@yahoo.com</a>><br>Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:01:47 -0600<br>Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] (no subject)<br>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Erik,<br> You are right on with all three of your points. For reference, we discontinued use of Type109 in Trnsys17 in favor of option 2 (Type15), which is correct from an energy perspective even though it isn't a smooth curve. In gernal think that a control strategy that relies only on the instantaneous DNI as its input might run into trouble not only in simulation but also in the real world; clouds pass in front of the sun rapidly sometimes. While I won't pretend that the "spiky" profile that Type15 generates is totally realistic, I think it is a fairly accurate representation of DNI. Bear in mind that Type15 is trying to reconstruct a minute by minute radiation profile based only on 1 number and to do so correctly for all possible climate types. You might consider a control strategy that uses the output of Type15 but put through a running-average component so that your control decisions are based on a somewhat more stable (smoother) profile.<br>
Best,<br> David<br><br><br>On 11/11/2011 00:32, Erik Boschek wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div><br></div>
<div>Dear TRNSYS users,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I have a simple question regarding weather reading and interpolating direct normal radiation (DNI) values for time steps less than an hour.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>As long as I have been using TRNSYS (using TRNSYS 16.1) I have understood this can be done in a few ways as follows, including the consequence for an example TM2 file (see attached screen shot for clarification):</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>1.) Do not interpolate, using Type 15 with output DNR (not interpolated): you end up with a "steppy" profile</div>
<div>2.) Using Type 15, but with 2-axis tracking and the output "Beam radiation for surface": you get a discontinuous "spikey" profile, but the integration of energy across the hour is respected</div>
<div>3.) Same as 2, but using Type109-TMY2: You get a smooth profile, but often there appear inexplicable spikes at the beginning or end of the day. The one in the plot obviously is an extreme case.<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>For reference: I just used the Daggett profile "US-CA-Daggett-23161.tm2" which came with TRNSYS, but the behavior is not specific to this file.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Generally, I have been using 2, but it can cause problems if there is, for example, some triggering function based on DNI and the DNI hovers around the threshold. Is there another option for getting a smoother profile or is it best just to not interpolate? Any opinions? Feel free to point me to an earlier post on this topic in case I missed it.<br>
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Erik Boschek<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div></div><br>
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</pre></blockquote><br><pre cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:<a href="tel:%2B1.608.274.2577" target="_blank" value="+16082742577">+1.608.274.2577</a>
F:<a href="tel:%2B1.608.278.1475" target="_blank" value="+16082781475">+1.608.278.1475</a>
<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>
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<a href="http://www.trnsys.com/" target="_blank">http://www.trnsys.com</a></pre></div><br><br>---------- 已转发邮件 ----------<br>From: David BRADLEY <<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>><br>
To: Marion Hiller <<a href="mailto:hiller@transsolar.com" target="_blank">hiller@transsolar.com</a>><br>Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:03:16 -0600<br>Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS3D Shading on Walls?<br>TRNSYS-users,<br>
My apologies; my reply to Graham was incorrect; as Marion says, only the windows are affected.<br>Kind regards,<br> David<br><br><br>On 11/11/2011 01:33, Marion Hiller wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">Graham,<br><br>the shading defined in Trnsys3D effects only windows.<br><br>Marion<br><br>Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller<br>
TRANSSOLAR: KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen<br>und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäude<br>Munich - New York - Stuttgart <a href="tel:%2B%2049.711.67976.0" target="_blank" value="+49711679760">+ 49.711.67976.0</a><br>
<br>Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart<br>Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347, Steuernummer 99073/00911, USt-IdNr.:<br>DE152272639<br>Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer,<br>
Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Bleicher<br><br><br><br>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br>Von: Graham Linn [mailto:<a href="mailto:grahamjlinn@gmail.com" target="_blank">grahamjlinn@gmail.com</a>]<br>Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. November 2011 21:49<br>
An: <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu" target="_blank">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br>Betreff: [TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS3D Shading on Walls?<br><br>Hello TRNSYS users,<br><br>I have a question about shading in TRNSYS3D. Does a shading object<br>
affect how much insolation hits the entire building or just the<br>windows on the building?<br><br>Thank you!<br>Graham<br>_______________________________________________<br>TRNSYS-users mailing list<br><a href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu" target="_blank">TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br>
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<br><br></blockquote><br>-- <br>***************************<br>David BRADLEY<br>Principal<br>Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC<br>22 North Carroll Street - suite 370<br>Madison, WI 53703 USA<br><br>P:<a href="tel:%2B1.608.274.2577" target="_blank" value="+16082742577">+1.608.274.2577</a><br>
F:<a href="tel:%2B1.608.278.1475" target="_blank" value="+16082781475">+1.608.278.1475</a><br><a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a><br><br><a href="http://www.tess-inc.com/" target="_blank">http://www.tess-inc.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.trnsys.com/" target="_blank">http://www.trnsys.com</a><br><br><br><br><br>---------- 已转发邮件 ----------<br>From: David BRADLEY <<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>><br>
To: Nidal Abdalla <<a href="mailto:nidalabdalla@yahoo.com" target="_blank">nidalabdalla@yahoo.com</a>><br>Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:29:48 -0600<br>Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] how to identify a wall that is adjacent two walls<br>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Nidal,<br> You have to be a little careful here. If you have a wall in zone 1, half of which is adjacent to zone 2 and half of which is adjacent to zone 3, you actually need to draw the wall as two walls in zone 1. Trnsys3D requires the user to be quite vigilant about manually setting adjacencies. You need to draw the ADJACENT wall in both zones and you need to open the object window for each of them, set the construction to ADJ_WALL, set the "outside boundary condition" to "Zone" and then manually select the zone to which it is adjacent in the "outside boundary object" field. <br>
<br> If you have been very careful about drawing your ADJACENT walls so that they have exactly the same verticies in both zones to which they belong, you can then select the menu item: Plugins: Trnsys3d: Surface Matching and click the "match in entire model" button.<br>
<br>Kind regards,<br> David<br> <br><br>On 11/11/2011 08:32, Nidal Abdalla wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 18pt">
<div><font face="Calibri">I drew a house using Trnsys3d that consists of: 3 bed rooms, living room, guest room and bath . The house was divided into 6 zones. Wall_zone5, for example, is adjacent two walls for two different zones. I am wondering how to identify a wall (using Object Info) that is adjacent two or more walls of diff. zones.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">Best Regards</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">Nidal Abdalla</font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class="MsoNormal"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </div></div><br>
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</pre></blockquote><br><pre cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:<a href="tel:%2B1.608.274.2577" target="_blank" value="+16082742577">+1.608.274.2577</a>
F:<a href="tel:%2B1.608.278.1475" target="_blank" value="+16082781475">+1.608.278.1475</a>
<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>
<a href="http://www.tess-inc.com/" target="_blank">http://www.tess-inc.com</a>
<a href="http://www.trnsys.com/" target="_blank">http://www.trnsys.com</a></pre></div><br><br>---------- 已转发邮件 ----------<br>From: "Walif M'kacher" <<a href="mailto:walif.mkacher@gmail.com" target="_blank">walif.mkacher@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu" target="_blank">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br>Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:13:05 +0100<br>Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Error in reading type 51 external performance File<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-SIZE: 13px" class="MsoNormal">Dear TRNSys Users,</p>
<p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-SIZE: 13px" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-SIZE: 13px" class="MsoNormal">I have a problem with external file of type 51a (cooling tower with an external performance File):</p>
<p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-SIZE: 13px" class="MsoNormal"><br></p>
<p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-SIZE: 13px" class="MsoNormal">That the simulation with this type causes error and this can't read this external file (.txt)</p>
<p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-SIZE: 13px" class="MsoNormal"><br></p>
<p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-SIZE: 13px" class="MsoNormal"><br></p>
<p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-SIZE: 13px" class="MsoNormal">Would you please help me how to correct the file joined or send me a truth format of this .txt file</p>
<p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-SIZE: 13px" class="MsoNormal"><br></p>
<p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-SIZE: 13px" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-SIZE: 13px" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Many thanks in advance</span></p>
<p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-SIZE: 13px" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"> </span></p>
<p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-SIZE: 13px" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u>Mkacher Walif</u></span></p></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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</pre></blockquote><br><pre cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:<a href="tel:%2B1.608.274.2577" target="_blank" value="+16082742577">+1.608.274.2577</a>
F:<a href="tel:%2B1.608.278.1475" target="_blank" value="+16082781475">+1.608.278.1475</a>
<a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>
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<a href="http://www.trnsys.com/" target="_blank">http://www.trnsys.com</a></pre></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br>