<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Trebuchet MS";
panose-1:2 11 6 3 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Trebuchet MS \, sans-serif";
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Trebuchet MS \, sans-serif \;";
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0cm;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;
margin-left:36.0pt;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:853573476;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:-222274442 -1061764516 134807555 134807557 134807553 134807555 134807557 134807553 134807555 134807557;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-start-at:0;
mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:-;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi David and hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks for your replying! If you have some more detailed information from TRNSsolar I will be happy to read them and further discuss!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Starting from your comments and useful questions I did some trials and thoughts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Concerning autosegmentation button:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Autosegmentation does not appear as button if you create the *.bui from a 3D model (and this makes sense!)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Autosegmentation does appear if you start from a new *.bui without 3D model<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It is not active if you have windows in your wall, even if the mindesmassflow is lower than minallowmassflo!!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Concerning the “minimum desired mass flowrate” and the “minimum allowable mass flowrate”:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don’t understand what should I write and which physical meaning has this parameter: <b>is this the minimum flowrate I will let circulate in the alayer?</b> (I then normally set the “inlet mass flow” as scheduled, but I set it higher than the minimum allowable internally calculated by trnsys…)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don’t know how the minimum allowable mass flowrate is calculated, even if from the math ref (pag.190&191) I understand that the min allowable massflowrate comes from <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>mpoint*c*n*(Rw+Rr+Rx)>=1/2 </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>à</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> this hypothesis is needed in order to accept the hypothesis of linearization of the “tot resistance Rt”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Can someone confirm this?<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If yes, the conclusion could be as follow: if the “min allowmassflr” is greater than the “min desmassflr” (set by user checking which minimum value of mass flow will be given to the AL??!?), in order to assure the reliability of the Rt linearization method segmentation is needed (smaller areas are obtained).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Do I have then to consider this AL areas as series (same massflow) or parallel (same Tin) connected?<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And how is the “min allowmassflowr” dependent from the “number of loops” (where with “number of loops” I understand the number of turns the radiant pipe realize within the surface)?<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Stefano<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Stefano,<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Trebuchet MS , sans-serif","serif"'>Why is not the button “Divide surface” always present?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Trebuchet MS , sans-serif ;","serif"'>I am simulating a radiant wall with “standard” features (pipe spacing 15 cm, pipe ext diameter 2 cm, pipe thickness 2 mm).</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>the "divide surface" button is only needed if TRNBuild calculates that the specific mass flow rate (kg/h.m2) of the floor you are proposing is below the allowable limit. If the specific flow rate is below 13 kg/h/m2 then you have to segment the floor into multiple floors in series (and the "divide surface" button will become active.<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Trebuchet MS , sans-serif","serif"'> Furthermore, I have found no information about how the parameter “number of fluid loops” is taken into account in the mathematical model. Do you have any idea? </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Trebuchet MS , sans-serif ;","serif"'>Last question: how does TRNSYS calculate the minimum allowed inlet mass flowrate in case of a “number of fluid loops” greater than 1?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>I am not sure about these but have forwarded the question on to our Transsolar colleagues. I will let you know as soon as I hear back from them.<br>Best,<br> David<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>***************************<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>David BRADLEY<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Principal<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>22 North Carroll Street - suite 370<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Madison, WI 53703 USA<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>P:+1.608.274.2577<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>F:+1.608.278.1475<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre></div></body></html>