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Wang,<br>
I apologize but I don't know the answer to your questions. I am not
familiar with TRNFlow/COMIS; I use the CONTAM/Type97 option for my
work on combined thermal/airflow studies.<br>
Kind regards,<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/5/2011 14:51, 王洋 wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABF0dEv1ov-00894jOYpc0Wnah4cJGqMyJVh3UC5jKc1ouwtwA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><font
size="3">Dear Mr. Bradley</font></span></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><font
size="3"> </font></span></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><font
size="3"><span> </span>Many thanks for your patient
reply!</font></span></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><font
size="3"><span> </span>1) Firstly, I only defined
one Thermal Airnode in one zone, two External nodes, two
Large opening. So I guess the reason is not the first
you said. But I found the definition of Large opening,
especially For Closed Opening: flow coefficient Cs per m
crack is 0.0001 kg/s/m at 1 Pa. Moreover, I found indeed
the hot air escapes from the zone about 2.42 kg/h after
I set the OF as 0 (</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="132ca1c149ae95c7_OLE_LINK2"><font size="3">from 6
pm to 8 am</font></a><font size="3">). But when I set
Cs as 0 kg/s/m at 1 Pa, moreover, I defined wind
pressure coefficients Cp as 0 for 2 external nodes,
there is still a </font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="132ca1c149ae95c7_OLE_LINK5"><font size="3">WEIRD
thing</font></a><font size="3">: the CO2% still
decreases, however, </font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="132ca1c149ae95c7_OLE_LINK4"><font size="3">the hot
air escapes from the zone about </font></a><font
size="3"><span>0.65 kg</span><span>/h (which is almost
the same from 6 pm to 8 am) after I set the OF as 0</span>.
I guess COMIS maybe still has an default although OF is
0 and Cs is 0 kg/s/m. But I indeed need CO2% as a
constant after OF is 0.<span> </span></font></span></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><font
size="3"> </font></span></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><font
size="3">2) For your second reason, I checked the COMIS
documentation. I found </font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="132ca1c149ae95c7_OLE_LINK3"><font size="3">Air
Flow calculation</font></a><font size="3"> is a steady
state simulation, however, the Pollutant Transport is
calculated with a dynamic model. Whether CO2% decreases
due to this reason i.e. COMIS is trying to predict CO2%,
when OF is 0 (Air Flow calculation), however, CO2% is
still calculated by COMIS (after OF is 0 during this
simulation step). But like 1), the hot air escapes from
the zone about 0.65 kg/h (which is almost the same from
6 pm to 8 am) after I set the OF as 0. Hence, I think
this reason 2) is still not reasonable. Moreover, I
found although TRNFlow ‘s engine is COMIS, for some
issues, the manuals of both of them COMIS and TRNFlow
are still not clear and relative completely. Could you
introduce other references or COMIS (EMPA) guys to give
me an exact answer for this WEIRD thing? Because it
troubles me for a long time. I need find </font><a
moz-do-not-send="true" name="132ca1c149ae95c7_OLE_LINK6"><font
size="3">the stable PID parameters</font></a><font
size="3"> to control OF which can keep CO2% under or at
the set-point 1000 ppm. Until now, I found the stable
PID parameters for one day, but due to CO2% decreases
after OF is 0 from 6 pm. Hence, the stable PID
parameters for one day don’t work for next day from 8
am. Please see the ATTACHED. The stable PID parameters
maybe are too large for next day’s CO2%.</font></span></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><font
size="3"> </font></span></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><font
size="3">3) For your third reason, I only defined 2
Large opening not including fans and ducts etc. by
TRNFlow, maybe you think they two large opening are a
true Mechanical ventilation system? </font></span></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><font
size="3"> </font></span></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><font
size="3">Many thanks in advance!</font></span></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><font
size="3"> </font></span></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US">Br.</span></span><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"></span></span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><font
size="3"> </font></span></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><font
size="3">wang</font></span></span></p>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/9/30 David BRADLEY <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN:
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class="gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">Wang,<br>
I will preface this by mentioning that I am not an
expert in the TRNFlow part of Type56. <br>
<br>
It is a little hard to know what is going on without
knowing anything about the building. However, if you
have multiple zones in the building, I imagine that
there would be some air mixing going on between zones
due to internal temperature and height differences and
the CO2 concentration would decrease in one zone while
increasing in another. <br>
<br>
I would also recommend looking at the COMIS
documentation (COMIS is the engine that underlies
TRNFlow) to see whether its algorithms are trying to
predict CO2 concentration at a particular point in the
space (like we do in Type56 for comfort calculations
at a particular point in a zone) or whether it is
assuming a fully mixed zone as far as the CO2 level is
concerned. If COMIS is calculating concentration at a
point and the air continues to mix after your opening
factor has gone to zero then that might explain the
decrease.<br>
<br>
Lastly, your mechanical ventilation system might have
something to do with the decrease; If you are actively
supplying air to the space after the opening factor is
zero and if the mechanical ventilation system has some
outdoor air associated with it then that also would
explain the decrease in CO2 level.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
David
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/30/2011 08:47, 王洋 wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Dear all,</div>
<div> </div>
<div> I simulated CO2 concentration changes
using TRNFlow. But there is a STRANGE
phenomenon. There are 2 occupants from 8am to
6 pm, CO2% is controlled by PID controller
which controls Opening Factor (OF) of window
at the set-point 1000 ppm. From 6 pm, there
are no occupants, OF is 0, there is no
infiltration in TRNBuild (Certainly,
infiltration in TRNBuild indeed will
inactivate when couping TRNFlow based on
TRNFlow Manual). However, from 6 pm, CO2%
begins to decrease. It's extremely strange!</div>
<div> </div>
<div> Which relative expert can expain that?
Or give me some advices for that? I am puzzled
for a long time.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> Many thanks in advance!</div>
<div> </div>
<div> br</div>
<div> </div>
<div> wang<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/9/30 <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu"
target="_blank">trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu</a>></span><br>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Using Excel as Load Profile (Pei Ru
Chao)<br>
2. TRNSYS error 300 (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:torres.carlos-moises@lte.ireq.ca"
target="_blank">torres.carlos-moises@lte.ireq.ca</a>)<br>
3. Direct expansion solar collector
(Mohamad Azly Abd Aziz (Ir))<br>
4. simulation studio crash when updating
project (Antoine Gautier)<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------<br>
From: Pei Ru Chao <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:simplica1@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">simplica1@hotmail.com</a>><br>
To: TRNSYS <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu"
target="_blank">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a>><br>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 16:31:53 +1000<br>
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Using Excel as Load
Profile<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As a newbie I am wondering how to
use Excel for load profile input. Can
anyone point me in the right direction
as to how to use a Data Reader to do
this? For example, can the Data Reader
read 10920 rows of data? In 9a for
example, Parameter 2 asks how many
values of input to read and the
maximum is only 98?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Pei</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------<br>
From: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:torres.carlos-moises@lte.ireq.ca"
target="_blank">torres.carlos-moises@lte.ireq.ca</a>><br>
To: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu"
target="_blank">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 15:50:36 -0400<br>
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS error 300<br>
<div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>Dear
all,</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>Whenever
I ry to run a type 56 simulation in
TRNSED I am given the following
error even though the same program
runned perfectly in TRNEdit</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span><span
lang="FR-CA"></span></span></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span><span
lang="FR-CA"> ***** ERROR
***** TRNSYS ERROR # 300<br>
UNABLE TO START PROGRAM IN
CALLPROGRAM UTILITY<br>
PLEASE CHECK PATH AND PROGRAM
NAME, THIS MAY BE A PROBLEM IN
TYPE 66<br>
<br>
*** Fatal Error at time
: 0.000000<br>
Generated by Unit : Not
applicable or not available<br>
Generated by Type : Not
applicable or not available<br>
TRNSYS Message 300 : The
TRNSYS Program attempted to
evaluate an EQUATION that raised a
negative number to a non-integer
value. Please check the EQUATION
formulation and re-run the
simulation<br>
Reported information : Not
available</span></span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span><span
lang="FR-CA"></span></span></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span><span
lang="FR-CA">the message is not
very helpfull and I don't even use
Type 66 in my simulation and I
checked all my equations and
nothing obvious comes to view.</span></span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span><span
lang="FR-CA"></span></span></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span><span
lang="FR-CA">Is there any known
solution to this problem? If need
be I can send you the files im
using.</span></span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span><span
lang="FR-CA"></span></span></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span><span
lang="FR-CA">Thank you</span></span></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div align="left">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>Carlos
Torres</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>Stagiaire
universitaire</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>Laboratoire
des technologies de l'énergie
(LTE)</span></font><font
face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font></div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------<br>
From: "Mohamad Azly Abd Aziz (Ir)" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:AZLY@jkr.gov.my"
target="_blank">AZLY@jkr.gov.my</a>><br>
To: "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu"
target="_blank">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu"
target="_blank">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a>><br>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 04:36:25 -0700<br>
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Direct expansion
solar collector<br>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-MY">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I wonder whether
someone has come-out with heat pump
type with direct expansion solar
collector/evaporator?.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Azly </p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------<br>
From: "Antoine Gautier" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:antoine.gautier@solamen.fr"
target="_blank">antoine.gautier@solamen.fr</a>><br>
To: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu"
target="_blank">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a>><br>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 13:48:10 +0200<br>
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] simulation studio
crash when updating project<br>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="FR">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear
all</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I
cannot update my project any more
without crashing simulation studio
(*.tpf and *.b17 in attachment).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Is
there another way to update the
input list for Type56 so that I can
keep on working?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks
a lot for your help.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Best
regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR:
#404040" lang="EN-US">--</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR:
#404040" lang="EN-US">Antoine
Gautier<br>
Solam</span><span style="COLOR:
#70b221" lang="EN-US">en</span><span
style="COLOR: black" lang="EN-US"><br>
</span><span style="COLOR: #404040"
lang="EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B33%206%2098%2078%2056%2046"
target="_blank"
value="+33698785646">+33 6 98 78
56 46</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR:
#404040" lang="EN-US">antoine.gautier@so</span><span
style="COLOR: #404040"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lamen.fr/"
target="_blank">lamen.fr</a></span><span
style="COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<br>
</blockquote>
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<br>
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<pre cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a>
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