Dear all,<br><br> I have some questions about Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS:<br><br>1.
I only find some equations about wall in Manual( such as Radaitive heat
flows to the wall, external walls), but I only can understand a little.
Please tell me some reference books about Wall heat transfer model in
TRNSYS. Because I simulated an actual test room: the indoor and outdoor
temperature keep the same 20°C and 10°C, respectively, during one day
24 hours. As this situation, QHEAT muss be equal to Q heat loss by walls
based on energy balance. But the result of QHEAT in TRNSYS is 6632 kJ,
but based on heat transfer equations I got the heat loss energy is 24307
kJ. So I want to know the Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS.<br>
<br>2. To Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS: Whether it will consider
Solar absorptance and Longwave Emission or not? But I didn't define
these things. But from NTYPE 906 Energy Balance for surfaces: <br>1_B6_BAL = - 1_B6_DQWALLdt- 1_B6_QCOMI+ 1_B6_QCOMO+ 1_B6_QRADGI+ 1_B6_QRADGO- 1_B6_QALG <br>
5.839E-14 -2.217E+03 -1.093E-01 -2.217E+03 3.725E-03 0.000E+00 0.000E+00<br><br>But We can see B6_QRADGI still has value as 3.725E-03. I cann't understand. Please explain possible reasons for it. <br>
<br>B6_DQWALLdt in Manual is change of internal energy of surface, but it's a
little abstract. Here I only used the heatings in TRNBUILD, no other
internal gains. PLEASE give me some examples about change of internal
energy of surface. Is it energy Generation of Wall etc.? Why here is
minus (-2.217E+03)? What's difference between B6_DQWALLdt and B6_QCOMO?
Why here they are the same? Is there some reasons?<br>
<br><br>
<br>3. How to get or check the TRNSYS program's source code? And how to
get the TRNSYS program's setup files and look over the "compiled"
files(fortran) etc.? Because some simulation results I cann't understand
such as the above Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS etc. I want to
understand their model and those simulation results and compare with the
results by hand.<br>
<br><br>Many thanks!<br><br>br.<br><br>wang<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/3/8 王洋 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wanghongyang1767@gmail.com">wanghongyang1767@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im"><br><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">2011/3/7 王洋 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wanghongyang1767@gmail.com" target="_blank">wanghongyang1767@gmail.com</a>></span><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Dear all,<br><br> I have some questions about Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS:<br><br>1. I only find some equations about wall in Manual( such as Radaitive heat flows to the wall, external walls), but I only can understand a little. Please tell me some reference books about Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS. Because I simulated an actual test room: the indoor and outdoor temperature keep the same 20°C and 10°C, respectively, during one day 24 hours. As this situation, QHEAT muss be equal to Q heat loss by walls based on energy balance. But the result of QHEAT in TRNSYS is 6632 kJ, but based on heat transfer equations I got the heat loss energy is 24307 kJ. So I want to know the Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS.<br>
<br>2. To Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS: Whether it will consider Solar absorptance and Longwave Emission or not? But I didn't define these things. But from NTYPE 906 Energy Balance for surfaces: <br>1_B6_BAL = - 1_B6_DQWALLdt- 1_B6_QCOMI+ 1_B6_QCOMO+ 1_B6_QRADGI+ 1_B6_QRADGO- 1_B6_QALG <br>
5.839E-14 -2.217E+03 -1.093E-01 -2.217E+03 3.725E-03 0.000E+00 0.000E+00<br><br>But We can see B6_QRADGI still has value as 3.725E-03. I cann't understand. Please explain possible reasons for it. <br>
<br>B6_DQWALLdt in Manual is change of internal energy of surface, but it's a
little abstract. Here I only used the heatings in TRNBUILD, no other
internal gains. PLEASE give me some examples about change of internal
energy of surface. Is it energy Generation of Wall etc.? Why here is
minus (-2.217E+03)? What's difference between B6_DQWALLdt and B6_QCOMO?
Why here they are the same? Is there some reasons?<br>
<br><br>
<br>3. How to get or check the TRNSYS program's source code? And how to get the TRNSYS program's setup files and look over the "compiled" files(fortran) etc.? Because some simulation results I cann't understand such as the above Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS etc. I want to understand their model and those simulation results and compare with the results by hand.<br>
<br><br>Many thanks!<br><br>br.<br><br>wang<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/3/7 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu" target="_blank">trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
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<br>Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Questions...please reply (Matt Duffy)<br>
2. Re: Stratified storage Tank (Matt Duffy)<br>
3. Re: Strange error (Rambod Rayegan)<br>
4. Re: Strange error (Matt Duffy)<br>
<br><br>---------- 已转发邮件 ----------<br>From: "Matt Duffy" <<a href="mailto:duffy@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">duffy@tess-inc.com</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:juvenciotavares@hotmail.com" target="_blank">juvenciotavares@hotmail.com</a>, <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu" target="_blank">trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu</a><br>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:34:17 -0600 (CST)<br>Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Questions...please reply<br><br> Dear Juvencio,<br><br>It appears that when you imported the file into TRNBuild, the application did not find the adjacent surface. This could be for a couple of reasons: the adjacency needs to be defined, or the surface in TRNSYS3D has a face that is reversed. Please refer to the TRNSYS3D tutorial PDF for more great information.<br>
<br>Best regards,<br><br>Matt Duffy<br> <br> <div style="background-repeat: repeat-x;"><b>----- Original Message -----</b><br><b>From:</b> "Juvêncio Correia Tavares" <<a href="mailto:juvenciotavares@hotmail.com" target="_blank">juvenciotavares@hotmail.com</a>> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Fri, March 4, 2011 10:50<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Questions...please reply<br><br> <div> <div><span><span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas"><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas"><br></span></span></div>I`m</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">doing a</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">dynamic simulation</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">of buildings</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">in</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">TRNSYS</span><span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">, during</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">the</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">simulation</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">gave the following error</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">...</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">as you can see</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">in</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">the picture.</span></span><div>
<font><span title="Clique para obter traduções alternativas">how</span> <span title="Clique para obter traduções alternativas">can I fix</span> <span title="Clique para obter traduções alternativas">this error</span><span title="Clique para obter traduções alter!
nativas">?</span><br></font><div><span><
span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas" class="ecxhps">And</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">also</span><span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">,</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">I would like</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">to send me</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">a</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">PDF</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">about</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">connection</span><span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">.</span><br>
<br><span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">I await your</span> <span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativ!
as">response</span><span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">.</span><br><br><span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas">thanks.</span></div></div></div> <hr noshade size="1"><pre>_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
<a>TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu</a>
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</pre></div></div><br><br>---------- 已转发邮件 ----------<br>From: "Matt Duffy" <<a href="mailto:duffy@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">duffy@tess-inc.com</a>><br>To: "Lei Wang" <<a href="mailto:leiwang@tees.tamus.edu" target="_blank">leiwang@tees.tamus.edu</a>>, <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu" target="_blank">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:41:06 -0600 (CST)<br>Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Stratified storage Tank<br><br>
Dear Lei Wang,<br>
<br>
I just tried this, and it simulated without problems in version 17, but<br>
when I tried in version 16, I also received the error. I can only<br>
speculate that this is due to the changes that we implemented for<br>
TrnsysConstants - we increased the number of parameters.<br>
Another option besides updating to version 17 is to use the Type534 TESS<br>
Tank model as well. Please let me know if you have any more questions<br>
about this.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Matt Duffy<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Lei Wang" <<a href="mailto:leiwang@tees.tamus.edu" target="_blank">leiwang@tees.tamus.edu</a>><br>
Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 16:17<br>
Subject:[TRNSYS-users] Stratified storage Tank<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi, All<br>
<br>
I try to use the Type4a(stratified storage tank) to modeling the ChW<br>
thermal storage<br>
tank, which volume was 1 million gal and height was 100 feet.<br>
<br>
<br>
The description of the type is as following<br>
"The thermal performance of a fluid-filled sensible energy storage tank,<br>
subject to<br>
thermal stratification, can be modeled by assuming that the tank consists<br>
of N (N <=<br>
100) fully-mixed equal volume segments"<br>
<br>
So I think the maximum nodes number can be 100.<br>
<br>
But when I input the number of nodes were 100, the TrnExe shows that there<br>
was a<br>
range check error. When I check the list file, there didn't show any error<br>
Information.<br>
<br>
When I input the number of nodes were 80, it works fine.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
Lei<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<br>
<br>
----- End of original message -----<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>---------- 已转发邮件 ----------<br>From: Rambod Rayegan <<a href="mailto:rraye001@fiu.edu" target="_blank">rraye001@fiu.edu</a>><br>To: hotline <<a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank">hotline@transsolar.com</a>><br>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 10:49:42 -0500<br>
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Strange error<br><div>Christian,<br> <br>Even when I change back the roof property to the previous one, the error exists. It seems, right now, it is independent of the roof property. This is the reason that I called it strange error.<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Rambod Rayegan<br>Ph.D Candidate<br>Mechanical Engineering Department<br>Florida International University<br>10555 W Flagler St, EC3620<br>Miami, FL, 33174<br> <br>305-348-3558 (Office)<br>786-218-7375(Cell)<br>305-348-1932 (Fax)<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 7:33 AM, hotline <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank">hotline@transsolar.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font face="Arial" size="2">Hi,</font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font face="Arial" size="2">seems like you hit a limit for the generation of the transfer function coefficients.</font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font face="Arial" size="2">Please check if the roof is defined correctly.</font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span>Regards</span></span></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Christian</span></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"></span> </span></div>
<div>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">TRANSSOLAR Software Team</span> </p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank">hotline@transsolar.com</a> </p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left"><a href="http://www.trnsys.de/" target="_blank">www.trnsys.de</a> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Transsolar KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäuden</span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 7.5pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart / Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347 / UsSt.-Id: DE152272639</span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 7.5pt;"></span> </p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer, Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Volkmar Bleicher</span><span style="font-family: 'Courier New'; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"></font></p></div>
<div> </div><br>
<div dir="ltr" align="left" lang="de">
<hr>
<font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>Von:</b> Rambod Rayegan [mailto:<a href="mailto:rraye001@fiu.edu" target="_blank">rraye001@fiu.edu</a>] <br><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 5. März 2011 06:08<br><b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu" target="_blank">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [TRNSYS-users] Strange error<br></font><br></div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div>
<p>Dear TRNSYS users: </p></div>
<div> </div>
<div>I am working on a model created buy TRNSYS 3d plugin in google sketchup for couple of months. Everyday I add something to it or modify some parameters in it. Today, I have just changed the roof type in the building type 56 and tried to run it again but I have received the following error: </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font color="#3333ff">Visual Fortran run-time error</font> </div>
<div><font color="#3333ff"></font> </div>
<div><font color="#3333ff">fortrtl:severe(64):input conversion error, unit 56, file C:\.....building.trn </font> </div>
<div><font color="#3333ff">Image PC Routine Source DFORRT.DLL 02014C49 Unknown Unknown Unknown</font> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Anybody has an idea to solve the issue? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thank you. </div>
<div><br>Rambod Rayegan<br>Ph.D Candidate<br>Mechanical Engineering Department<br>Florida International University<br>10555 W Flagler St, EC3620<br>Miami, FL, 33174<br> <br>305-348-3558 (Office)<br>786-218-7375(Cell)<br>
305-348-1932 (Fax)<br></div>
<p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>
<br><br>---------- 已转发邮件 ----------<br>From: "Matt Duffy" <<a href="mailto:duffy@tess-inc.com" target="_blank">duffy@tess-inc.com</a>><br>To: "Rambod Rayegan" <<a href="mailto:rraye001@fiu.edu" target="_blank">rraye001@fiu.edu</a>>, <a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank">hotline@transsolar.com</a><br>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:57:02 -0600 (CST)<br>Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Strange error<br>Dear Rambod,<br><br>If you send me the IDF file, I might be able to shed some light on the error.<br><br>Best regards,<br><br>Matt Duffy<br>
<br> <br> <div style="background-repeat: repeat-x;"><b>----- Original Message -----</b><br><b>From:</b> "Rambod Rayegan" <<a href="mailto:rraye001@fiu.edu" target="_blank">rraye001@fiu.edu</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Mon, March 7, 2011 9:49<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Strange error<br><br> <div> <div>Christian,<br> <br>Even when I change back the roof property to the previous one, the error exists. It seems, right now, it is independent of the roof property. This is the reason that I called it strange error.</div>
<div> </div> <div>Rambod Rayegan<br>Ph.D Candidate<br>Mechanical Engineering Department<br>Florida International University<br>10555 W Flagler St, EC3620<br>Miami, FL, 33174<br> <br>305-348-3558 (Office)<br>786-218-7375(Cell)<br>
305-348-1932 (Fax)</div> <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 7:33 AM, hotline <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank">hotline@transsolar.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font face="Arial" size="2">Hi,</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"> </div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font face="Arial" size="2">seems like you hit a limit for the generation of the transfer function coefficients.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font face="Arial" size="2">Please check if the roof is defined correctly.</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"> </div> <div><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span>Regards</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Christian</span></span></div> <div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div> <div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">TRANSSOLAR Software Team</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com" target="_blank">hotline@transsolar.com</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"> </p> <p class="MsoNormal" align="left"><a href="http://www.trnsys.de/" target="_blank">www.trnsys.de</a></p> <p class="MsoNormal" align="left"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Transsolar KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäuden</span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 7.5pt;"> &n!
bsp; </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart / Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347 / UsSt.-Id: DE152272639</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer, Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Volkmar Bleicher</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left"> </p></div> <div> </div><br> <div dir="ltr" align="left" lang="de"><hr> <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>Von:</b> Rambod Rayegan [mailto:<a href="mailto:rraye001@fiu.edu" target="_blank">rraye001@fiu.edu</a>] <br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 5. Mä!
;rz 2011 06:08<br><b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu" target="_blank">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br> <b>Betreff:</b> [TRNSYS-users] Strange error<br></font></div> <div><div> </div> <div><div> </div>
<div><p>Dear TRNSYS users:</p></div> <div> </div> <div>I am working on a model created buy TRNSYS 3d plugin in google sketchup for couple of months. Everyday I add something to it or modify some parameters in it. Today, I have just changed the roof type in the building type 56 and tried to run it again but I have received the following error:</div>
<div> </div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#3333ff">Visual Fortran run-time error</font></div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#3333ff">fortrtl:severe(64):input conversion error, unit 56, file C:\.....building.trn </font></div>
<div><font color="#3333ff">Image PC Routine Source DFORRT.DLL 02014C49 Unknown Unknown Unknown</font></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Anybody has an idea to solve the issu!
e?</div> <div> </div> <div>Thank you.</div> <div><br>Rambod Rayegan<br>Ph.D Candidate<br>Mechanical Engineering Department<br>Florida International University<br>10555 W Flagler St, EC3620<br>Miami, FL, 33174<br> <br>305-348-3558 (Office)<br>
786-218-7375(Cell)<br> 305-348-1932 (Fax)</div> <p> </p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br> <hr noshade size="1"><pre>_______________________________________________
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