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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dear Héloïse, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If you want to use the
ideal heating and cooling option of type56, you can change the set point at
wich you want to heat or cool.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>e.g. if you want to start
heating at T_op=T_set=20°C, determine an input to type56 being T_corrected =
2*Tset-Tmsurf, with Tset = 20 and Tmsurf the mean surface temp which type56
gives as an output.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It comes from T_operative
= (T_air+T_mean_surf)/2, or with the symbols of above T_set =
(T_corrected+Tmsurf)/2.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So, instead of supplying
the required operative temperature T_set as input, you supply the equivalent
air temperature, so with T_corrected as air temp and Tmsurf as surface temp you
end up with an operative temp = T_set.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Works fine, with no
numerical issues, only a small oscillation around T_set, but with a small
enough time step, this is neglectable.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Good luck,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Maarten<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div><pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>-- <br>
Departement Werktuigkunde-Department of Mechanical Engineering <br>
Katholieke Universiteit Leuven<br>
Celestijnenlaan 300A bus 2421<br>
3001 Heverlee (Leuven)<br>
T : 0032 (0)16 32 28 73<br>
F : 0032 (0)16 32 29 85<br>
E : Maarten.Sourbron@mech.kuleuven.be</span><o:p></o:p></font></pre></div>
<div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext'> David BRADLEY
[mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> maandag 8 november 2010
20:48<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Heloise PELEN<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Top
control in the Type 56</span></font><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
"Times New Roman";color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'>Heloise,<br>
If you are using the automatic heating and cooling types that are built
into Type56/TRNBuild then these only pay attention to the zone air temperature
in order to compute the sensible load on the space. The control of those
components is assumed to be instantaneous and ideal. If you are simulating a
building and an actual HVAC system then you can set up the HVAC system to pay
attention to whatever Type56 output variables that you want (including
operative temperature). PID control is possible using Type22 but in my
experience a lot of portions of the HVAC system are based on ON/OFF control
(Type108). When implementing controls of any kind you need to make sure that
your timesteps are small (1 to 5 minutes); recall that TRNSYS can make one
control decision per timestep and then it must stick with that decision until
the next timestep.<br>
Regards,<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
On 11/8/2010 10:25, Heloise PELEN wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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</xml><![endif]-->Dear TRNSYS users,<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><u5:p> </u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>The Type 56 uses a control on the
air temperature « TAIR » to compute the sensible heat demand of each
thermal zones.<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>This temperature does not include
the surface temperature and doesn’t fully describe the temperature
actually felt by the human, body.<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><u5:p> </u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Is there a way to control the
operative temperature, rather than on the air temperature, in type 56 ?<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>I thought about using Type 22 but the
simulation seems rather unstable with more than on Type 22, and I would like to
be able to control the operative temperature in each thermal zones.<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><u5:p> </u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Thanks for your help !<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><u5:p> </u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Best regards,<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Héloïse Pelen<u5:p></u5:p></span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 color=white face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:2.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:white;font-weight:bold'>ETAMINE<u5:p></u5:p></span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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color="#00b050" face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:#00B050;text-transform:uppercase;font-weight:bold'><img width=118
height=48 id="Image_x005f_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB824D.BEB9A040"
alt="etamine_mail"></span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><a
href="mailto:heloise.pelen@etamine.coop" moz-do-not-send=true><font
color=black><span style='color:black'>heloise.pelen@etamine.coop</span></font></a><u5:p></u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>75 rue de la Villette - 69003
Lyon<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Std : 04 37 45 34 20 / Fax : 04
37 45 41 38<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#00b050" face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:#00B050'>Ld : 04 37 45 34
13 / Port : 06 65 07 41 77</span></font><span style='color:rgb(0, 176,
80)'><u5:p></u5:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Mistral'>Visitez notre site web : </span></font><a
href="www.etamine.coop" title="Aller sur le site de
ETAMINE"
moz-do-not-send=true><font size=4 color="#00b050" face=Mistral><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Mistral;color:#00B050'>www.etamine.coop</span></font></a><font
size=4 face=Mistral><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Mistral'> !</span></font><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></p>
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style='font-size:11.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></u5:p></p>
<pre wrap=""><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>TRNSYS-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu">TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users">https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
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<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>***************************<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>David BRADLEY<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Principal<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>22 North Carroll Street - suite 370<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Madison, WI 53703 USA<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>P:+1.608.274.2577<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>F:+1.608.278.1475<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
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