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Thank you all for your answers : I checked the different solutions
proposed.<br>
<br>
With the type22 (iterative feedback controller) it seems to work but
for some reason the controller seems satisfied with a resulting
temperature lying outside the imposed tolerance (tol = 0.2K while
Toperative - Tset = 0.8K sometimes). I didn't check the controllers
algorithme to find out what's going on, though. The controller status
indicated for most of the timesteps a value of 65 (1 + 64), which means
the u-e - curve is 'too steep' for the controller. This might cause
the problem?<br>
<br>
With the reverse procedure suggested by mr. Olsen, it works fine,
except from the fact that the mean radiant temp used to calculate the
'corrected' T_air, is always from the previous timestep (or am I
mistaking here?). But, since Trad_mean doesn't change quickly, this
only leeds to a minor deviation (0.1K max).<br>
<br>
The Top-equation suggested by mr. Keilholz is more detailed, but the
PID controller I tried quickly didn't manage to keep Top constant. I
didn't look at it very carefully to find good controller parameters, I
admit.<br>
<br>
Thank you all!<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Maarten<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Kersken, Matthias schreef:
<blockquote
cite="mid:76D707B03195C64E81A623DD170CDF3D02AD7F77@izs-xchg01.izs.fraunhofer.de"
type="cite">
<title>[TRNSYS-users] Simplified heating and cooling based on
operativetemperature</title>
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<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="263024514-18022010"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Hello Ms. Jansen and Mr.
Sourbron!</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="263024514-18022010"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="263024514-18022010"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">I also think the solution has to
be outside Type56.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="263024514-18022010"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="263024514-18022010"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">If You use an
iterative-feedback-controller (Type22) instead of Type2 and feed the
operative temperature in as "controlled variable", define Your Setpoint
and give the output of the controller as Gain in the thermal zone You
should be able to avoid the hysteresis-effect occoring when using
Type2. (You can also set a maximum output/heating power).</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="263024514-18022010"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="263024514-18022010"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Using Type2 a bigger Deadband or
a shorter timestep my also solve the problem.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="263024514-18022010"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="263024514-18022010"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">With kind regards,</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="263024514-18022010"> <font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Matthias Kersken</font></span></div>
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<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 4.5pt;"><b><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Dipl.-Ing. Matthias
Kersken<br>
</span></b><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Wissenschaftlicher
Mitarbeiter / Abteilung Energiesysteme<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin: 9pt 0cm 0pt;"><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Fraunhofer-Institut für
Bauphysik <br>
Institutsteil Holzkirchen</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Fraunhoferstraße 10<br>
83626 Valley</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin: 4.5pt 0cm;"><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">eMail: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Matthias.Kersken@ibp.fraunhofer.de">Matthias.Kersken@ibp.fraunhofer.de</a><br>
Telefon 08024 / 643-204<br>
Telefax 08024 / 643-366<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ibp.fraunhofer.de/">www.ibp.fraunhofer.de</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 4.5pt;"><b><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB">Dipl.-Ing.
Matthias Kersken<br>
</span></b><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB">Research
Associate / Department Energy Systems </span><span style=""
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin: 9pt 0cm 0pt;"><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB">Fraunhofer
Institute for Building Physics <br>
Branch Holzkirchen</span><span style="" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="SpellE"><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB">Fraunhoferstraße</span></span><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB"> 10<br>
D-83626 Valley</span><span style="" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin: 4.5pt 0cm;"><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB">eMail: </span><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Matthias.Kersken@ibp.fraunhofer.de"><span style=""
lang="EN-GB">Matthias.Kersken@ibp.fraunhofer.de</span></a></span><span
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB"><br>
Phone +49 8024 / 643-204<br>
Fax +49 8024 / 643-366<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ibp.fraunhofer.de/"><span
style="" lang="EN-GB">www.ibp.fraunhofer.de</span></a></span><span
style="" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr" class="OutlookMessageHeader" align="left" lang="de">
<hr tabindex="-1"> <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>Von:</b> Sabine
Jansen - BK [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:S.C.Jansen@tudelft.nl">mailto:S.C.Jansen@tudelft.nl</a>] <br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Donnerstag, 18. Februar 2010 14:51<br>
<b>An:</b> Maarten Sourbron; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Simplified heating and cooling
based onoperativetemperature<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="idOWAReplyText40328">
<div dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">Dear all,</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">I am also interensted in
that question.</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">The only way I know now
how to solve this is by using a type (controller, type 2 or thermostat,
type 8) outside type 56. The the operative zone temperature must be
connected to this type (e.g. 2b and creating a schedule elsewhere, in
an equation solver), and the heating must be defined as a limited power
connected to an input, which is then the output of the control type
(type 2 or type 8).</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">One problem with this
approach is that I cannot use a very large heating power anymore, since
that causes the controller to switch on and off. Thus the heating power
must be determined using the ideal heating, based on air temperature,
first.</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">If there is an easier
way, I am also very happy.</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">Kind regards,</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">Sabine Jansen</font></div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<hr tabindex="-1"> <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>Van:</b>
Maarten Sourbron [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Maarten.Sourbron@mech.kuleuven.be">mailto:Maarten.Sourbron@mech.kuleuven.be</a>]<br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> do 18-2-2010 13:53<br>
<b>Aan:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> [TRNSYS-users] Simplified heating and cooling
based on operativetemperature<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size="2">Dear all,<br>
<br>
The simplified heating and cooling in Trnbuild is now comparing the zone<br>
AIR temperature with the given set points. Is there a way to change<br>
this (or another controller model) to have the zone OPERATIVE<br>
temperature compared with the set points?<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Maarten Sourbron<br>
<br>
--<br>
Departement Werktuigkunde-Department of Mechanical Engineering<br>
Katholieke Universiteit Leuven<br>
Celestijnenlaan 300A bus 2421<br>
3001 Heverlee (Leuven)<br>
T : 0032 (0)16 32 28 73<br>
F : 0032 (0)16 32 29 85<br>
E : <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Maarten.Sourbron@mech.kuleuven.be">Maarten.Sourbron@mech.kuleuven.be</a><br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Departement Werktuigkunde-Department of Mechanical Engineering
Katholieke Universiteit Leuven
Celestijnenlaan 300A bus 2421
3001 Heverlee (Leuven)
T : 0032 (0)16 32 28 73
F : 0032 (0)16 32 29 85
E : <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Maarten.Sourbron@mech.kuleuven.be">Maarten.Sourbron@mech.kuleuven.be</a></pre>
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