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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hello David,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for your answers.
I still have some questions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You said that I can use
geosurf for the longwave radiation, but I thought geosurf is only useable for
shortwave (sun) direct radiation. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I still don’t
understand how trnsys determines the resistance to long wave-radiation
(Ri-j,rad = 1/(e * A * Gij * sigma * Tmean3) [Seem]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Gij is the absorption factor (fraction of energy emitted by surface
I which is absorped by surface j,[Gebhart].<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Tmean is the average temperature of surfaces in room.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ol>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ad 1: Gebhart calculates the
absorption fraction by using view factors. Because trnsys 16 doesn’t have
view factors, I wonder how this factor is determined.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ad 2: Does trnsys
calculate the average temperature every timestep? Because in the manual (pg.
6-79) they refer to a RTEMP which is used to linearize the longwave radiation
exchange. So I suspect this temperature is the mean temperature. So Tmean =
RTEMP (RTEMP is a constant)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Mariëlle Nuchelmans<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
<hr size=1 width=600 style='width:450.0pt' align=left id=Lijn>
</span></font></div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>Van:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> David Bradley [mailto:bradley@tess-inc.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Verzonden:</span></b> woensdag 10 februari
2010 22:44<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Aan:</span></b> Mariëlle Nuchelmans<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>CC:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Onderwerp:</span></b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] (no subject)</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Mariëlle,<br>
In TRNSYS 16, the absorption for solar radiation can be set using the
wall type manager. The emissivity for the wall surface, however is hardcoded
inside Type56. You are correct that Type56 uses a star network for radiation
exchange. All surfaces radiate to the airnode and the airnode radiates to all
surfaces. There are no view factors. The one control you have is the geosurf
factor with which you can specify the fraction of longwave radiation entering a
zone that falls on a particualr surface.<br>
<br>
In TRNSYS 17 you can define "radiation zones" which DO have
view factors provided that you have used the Trnsys3D plugin for Google
SketchUp to generate those view factors for your building's geometry. You can
also adjust the emissivity of the walls within TRNBuild.<br>
<br>
I am not as sure what to suggest for setting the temperature of the
wall. Inside (and outside) surface temperatures are calculated as part of the
zone energy balance. You might be able to use a thermostat and the "wall
gain" feature to control the inside surface temperature of your warm wall.<br>
Best,<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
Mariëlle Nuchelmans wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hello,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I’m trying to understand how
trnsys deals with long-wave radiation. I know that trnsys calculates it with
the star network method from Seem (adjusted by Koschenz in 1997). I
looked at the method and I wonder how the absorption factor between surfaces is
determined. Seem refers to Gebhart, but this method uses view-factors and
trnsys doesn’t know them. So how does trnsys determine this absorption
factor?<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I also wonder if it is possible to
adjust (or make variable) the mean average wall temperature (used to linearize
the long-wave radiation exchange between surfaces between zones). In my project
I have one wall which probably is a lot warmer than the other walls.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Met vriendelijke groet,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Mariëlle Nuchelmans<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
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<hr size=1 width=600 style='width:450.0pt' align=left id=Lijn>
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src="cid:image001.gif@01CAAAFA.C224D4A0"
alt="Cauberg-Huygen Raadgevende Ingenieurs BV"><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>M. Nuchelmans-van Wanum</span></b> |
Assistent Projectleider | Cauberg-Huygen Raadgevende Ingenieurs BV (Maastricht,
KvK 14623897)<br>
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Denk aan het milieu en print deze email alleen als het noodzakelijk is.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre wrap=""><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre
style='text-align:center'><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</span></font></pre><pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>TRNSYS-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="mailto:TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu">TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users">https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>***********************************************************************<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Thermal Energy System Specialists (TESS), LLC <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>David BRADLEY 22 N. Carroll Street - Suite 370 <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Partner Madison, WI 53703 <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> USA<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>P: +1.608.274.2577 <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>F: +1.608.278.1475<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>E-mail: <a
href="mailto:bradley@tess-inc.com">bradley@tess-inc.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Web Pages: <a
href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a> and <a
href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>***********************************************************************<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
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