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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314112615-18122009><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Hello Francois,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314112615-18122009><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314112615-18122009><FONT face=Arial
size=2>thank you for your answer! </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314112615-18122009><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314112615-18122009><FONT face=Arial
size=2>It was very helpfull and I also found the solution for the strange
results that I've got. I tried all, except setting the "cold side flow rate" to
0, and that was the reason for the low energy in the tank.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314112615-18122009> </SPAN></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 8px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px"><FONT face=Arial><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000">Mit freundlichen Grüßen<SPAN
class=314112615-18122009> / Kind regards</SPAN><BR></FONT><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000">Christopher
Haluf </FONT></FONT><BR><SPAN class=314112615-18122009></SPAN><FONT
face=Arial><FONT size=2>I<SPAN
class=314112615-18122009>ntern</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 8px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px"><FONT face=Arial><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=314112615-18122009></SPAN></FONT></FONT><BR><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000" face=Arial>Siemens AG <BR>Corporate
Technology <BR>CT PS 3 <BR>Günther-Scharowsky-Str. 1 <BR>91058 Erlangen,
Deutschland <BR>Tel.: +49 (9131) 7-24724 <BR>Fax: +49 (9131) 7-21339 <BR><A
href="mailto:christopher.haluf@siemens.com"><FONT
color=#000000>mailto:christopher.haluf@siemens.com</FONT></A>
<BR></FONT><BR><SPAN
style="MARGIN-TOP: 8px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; COLOR: #000000"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #000000" face=Arial>Siemens Aktiengesellschaft:
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<DIV> </DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=de dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>Von:</B> Francois Badinier
[mailto:francois.badinier@icax.co.uk] <BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Friday, December 18,
2009 4:14 PM<BR><B>An:</B> Haluf, Christopher;
trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu<BR><B>Betreff:</B> RE: [TRNSYS-users] Auxiliary Heater
and Stratified Storage Tank<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Hi
Christopher<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I
found several things to correct in your model to find the
solution:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoListParagraph style="TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">1.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><![endif]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">The
main thing is that you are withdrawing some heat from your tank at the same time
as you are heating it, because your “cold side flow rate” input for the Tank is
not set to 0. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoListParagraph style="TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">2.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><![endif]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">In
your pump, if you want an ideal pump, set the conversion coefficient to 0, so
that the pump does not heat the fluid by its
inefficiencies.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoListParagraph style="TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">3.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><![endif]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">In
your auxiliary heater, you’ll have to increase your “boiling temperature” so
that it continues heating when you reach 100C (because you reach 100 C before
the end of the 10h)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoListParagraph style="TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">4.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><![endif]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">If
you play with the time step (more accurate when smaller), you’ll see that what I
called Q_to_Tank tends to the 360,000 kJ. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoListParagraph style="TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">5.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><![endif]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">However,
I also plotted the “internal energy change”, which is exactly what you want to
see, it is equal to the “Q_to_Tank_kJ” up to the point where the temperature of
the tank reaches 100 C, and then the Tank cannot accept any more energy, so
you’ll see that for the last minutes of your simulation the “internal energy
change” flattens out.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I
attached the tpf so you can see all that.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">François
Badinier<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #c0504d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Development
Engineer<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #00b050; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">ICAX
Ltd<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #00b050; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">1
Hatfield House <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #00b050; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Baltic
Street West<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #00b050; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">London
EC1Y OST<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=FR
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><A
href="mailto:alan.kiff@icax.co.uk"><SPAN
lang=EN-GB>francois.badinier@icax.co.uk</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=FR
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><A
href="http://www.icax.co.uk"><SPAN
lang=EN-GB>www.icax.co.uk</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Haluf,
Christopher [mailto:christopher.haluf@siemens.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 18 December
2009 09:07<BR><B>To:</B> trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B>
[TRNSYS-users] Auxiliary Heater and Stratified Storage
Tank<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Dear
TRNSYS-Users,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I'm modelling an easy
system that consists of a pump (Type 3b), an auxiliary heater (Type 6) and a
stratified storage tank (Type 4a). I've attached my .tpf-file, so you can
comprehend what I'm writing.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I'm doing this
simulation because I want to get familiar with the behavior of a tank while it
is loaded. I set the losses of each component to 0 and the efficiencies to 1, so
that I have a loss-free system. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Concerning the
heater, I set the "maximum heating rate" to 10 kW and the "set point
temperature" to 100°C. I defined 3 nodes besides the top and the bottom in the
tank, so I have 5 nodes. I set the "initial temperature" for each node to 20°C.
The volume of the tank is 1m³ and I disabled the internal heaters, so that all
of the heat is provided by Type6.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">What I want to do, is
to check if all of the energy which is provided by the Heater gets into the
tank. Therefore, I run the simulation for 10 hours. Now, I calculate the energy
provided by the heater which is 10 kW * 36.000 s = 360.000 kJ. In order to
control if all of this energy got into the tank, I take the highest and the
lowest value of the average tank temperature which is the delta T. Cp for water
is 4.19 kJ/kg*K and the mass of the water is 1.000kg. Now, I can calculate the
internal energy of the tank (1000 kg * 4.19 kJ/kg*K * (74.2°C-20°C) = 227.098
kJ). This value is definitely much lower than the energy that is provided by the
heater...<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Another strange thing
is, that the average tank temperature begins with a value of 0°C. I don't
understand this, because I set the initial temperature for all nodes to 20°C, so
I think that the average tank temperature should have the same
value...<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Could someone of you
please have a look at my simulation and see if there is something wrong. And if
there is all right, could you please explain the bahvior of the tank? It would
be very helpfull for me!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Thank you in
advance!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Mit freundlichen
Grüßen / Kind regards<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Christopher
Haluf<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Intern<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Siemens
AG<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Corporate
Technology<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">CT PS
3<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Günther-Scharowsky-Str.
1<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">91058 Erlangen,
Deutschland<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Tel.: +49 (9131)
7-24724 <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Fax: +49 (9131)
7-21339 <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A
href="mailto:christopher.haluf@siemens.com">mailto:christopher.haluf@siemens.com<SPAN
style="COLOR: gray"> </SPAN></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Siemens
Aktiengesellschaft: Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Gerhard Cromme; Vorstand:
Peter Löscher, Vorsitzender; Wolfgang Dehen, Heinrich Hiesinger, Joe Kaeser,
Barbara Kux, Hermann Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen; Sitz der
Gesellschaft: Berlin und München, Deutschland; Registergericht: Berlin
Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, München, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE
23691322</SPAN><SPAN
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<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">No virus
found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<BR>Version:
9.0.716 / Virus Database: 270.14.103/2558 - Release Date: 12/17/09
08:30:00</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>