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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Dear Knut!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>When modelling a internal shading <SPAN
class=446521909-12112009>together </SPAN>with a <SPAN
class=446521909-12112009>large</SPAN><SPAN class=446521909-12112009> glazing in
a TRNSYS-versions below 17 You have to consider the
following!</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=446521909-12112009></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=446521909-12112009>Once the solar
radiation as crossed one of Your two zones and (a part of it) has enters
the second zone all the radiation will be threaded as diffuse
radiation.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=446521909-12112009>If You don't use
geosurf-factors all the beam-radiation entering entering the second zone
directly will also be handled as diffuse (so set a geosurf at least in the
lower zone !)</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=446521909-12112009>and at least You also
have the diffuse radiation entering the second zone
directly.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=446521909-12112009>This means in a
two-zone-green-house-model You have a very high amount of diffuse radiation in
the zones (of course this effect exists in both directions between the two
zones).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=446521909-12112009></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=446521909-12112009>Now the (high) diffuse
radiation in the zone is distributed equal to every m² of zone-wall and windows,
this means much more radiation is distributed back to the glazing (where it came
from) as it would be in reality and so more energy leafs through the
glazing as it would in reality.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=446521909-12112009>If the internal
shading is active it keeps this high amount of radiation inside the
room and so You may have effects like the room temperature as a light drop for a
moment, when You deactivate Your int.
shading.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=446521909-12112009>This may explain Your
steep temperature changes (?).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=446521909-12112009>A solution for this
problem I don not have at hand (except TRNSYS 17) but You my try using a low
inside reflection of Your shading, this might reduce this
effect.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=446521909-12112009></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=446521909-12112009>I think Your
assumption concerning the heat transmission in the night being influenced by the
thermal resistance of the shading is
correct.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=446521909-12112009>This effect is'
expectable and in already worked with it in TRNSYS
(16).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=446521909-12112009></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=446521909-12112009>With kind
regards,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=346061809-12112009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=446521909-12112009>
Matthias Kersken</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal align=left><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">---</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
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style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: white; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt">
<P
style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 4.5pt; mso-element: frame; mso-element-frame-hspace: 2.25pt; mso-element-wrap: around; mso-element-anchor-vertical: paragraph; mso-element-anchor-horizontal: column; mso-element-left: -9.0pt; mso-height-rule: exactly"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dipl.-Ing. Matthias
Kersken<BR></SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Wissenschaftlicher
Mitarbeiter / Abteilung Energiesysteme<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MARGIN: 9pt 0cm 0pt; mso-element: frame; mso-element-frame-hspace: 2.25pt; mso-element-wrap: around; mso-element-anchor-vertical: paragraph; mso-element-anchor-horizontal: column; mso-element-left: -9.0pt; mso-height-rule: exactly"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Fraunhofer-Institut für
Bauphysik <BR>Institutsteil Holzkirchen</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P
style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-element: frame; mso-element-frame-hspace: 2.25pt; mso-element-wrap: around; mso-element-anchor-vertical: paragraph; mso-element-anchor-horizontal: column; mso-element-left: -9.0pt; mso-height-rule: exactly"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Fraunhoferstraße
10<BR>83626 Valley</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P
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style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">eMail: <A
href="mailto:Matthias.Kersken@ibp.fraunhofer.de">Matthias.Kersken@ibp.fraunhofer.de</A><BR>Telefon
08024 / 643-204<BR>Telefax 08024 / 643-366<BR><A
href="http://www.ibp.fraunhofer.de/">www.ibp.fraunhofer.de</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P
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<P
style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 4.5pt; mso-element: frame; mso-element-frame-hspace: 2.25pt; mso-element-wrap: around; mso-element-anchor-vertical: paragraph; mso-element-anchor-horizontal: column; mso-element-left: -9.0pt; mso-height-rule: exactly"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB>Dipl.-Ing. Matthias Kersken<BR></SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB>Research Associate / Department Energy Systems
</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MARGIN: 9pt 0cm 0pt; mso-element: frame; mso-element-frame-hspace: 2.25pt; mso-element-wrap: around; mso-element-anchor-vertical: paragraph; mso-element-anchor-horizontal: column; mso-element-left: -9.0pt; mso-height-rule: exactly"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB>Fraunhofer Institute for Building Physics <BR>Branch
Holzkirchen</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-element: frame; mso-element-frame-hspace: 2.25pt; mso-element-wrap: around; mso-element-anchor-vertical: paragraph; mso-element-anchor-horizontal: column; mso-element-left: -9.0pt; mso-height-rule: exactly"><SPAN
class=SpellE><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB>Fraunhoferstraße</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB> 10<BR>D-83626 Valley</SPAN><SPAN
style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB" lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MARGIN: 4.5pt 0cm; mso-element: frame; mso-element-frame-hspace: 2.25pt; mso-element-wrap: around; mso-element-anchor-vertical: paragraph; mso-element-anchor-horizontal: column; mso-element-left: -9.0pt; mso-height-rule: exactly"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB>eMail: </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
href="mailto:Matthias.Kersken@ibp.fraunhofer.de"><SPAN
style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB>Matthias.Kersken@ibp.fraunhofer.de</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><BR>Phone +49 8024 / 643-204<BR>Fax +49 8024 /
643-366<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
href="http://www.ibp.fraunhofer.de/"><SPAN
style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB>www.ibp.fraunhofer.de</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang=EN-GB>---<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV dir=ltr lang=de class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>Von:</B> knut.erik.enerstvedt@niva.no
[mailto:knut.erik.enerstvedt@niva.no] <BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Dienstag, 10.
November 2009 10:11<BR><B>An:</B>
trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu<BR><B>Betreff:</B> [TRNSYS-users] Internal and
external shading factors in Type 56<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><FONT size=2
face="Default Sans Serif,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<P style="MARGIN: 0px">Hello all,</P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px">I'm using Type 56 to develop a model of a greenhouse
which has controllable inside screens to reduce incoming and outgoing
radiation. I have used the "internal shading factor" of the windows with an
input variable to achieve this, since the screens are actually on the
<EM>inside </EM>of the greenhouse. However, the internal shading device does
not have quite the effect I expected. It does not seem to reduce solar
radiation hitting the zone, so that temperatures rise very high on warm
and sunny days. It does however seem to reduce temperature loss at night, but
this could be due to the additional thermal resistance. By testing the
"external shading factor" instead, I found that this device has the effect I
want, blocking out radiation and keeping temperatures down on hot days. Can
someone please tell me if I have misunderstood the concept of internal
shading? Does it not prevent outside solar radiation from hitting the zone
after passing through the windows?</P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px">Best regards,</P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px">Knut Erik
Enerstvedt</P></FONT><BR><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Meld
deg på vårt nyhetsbrev på www.niva.no<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>