Thankx monika,<br>I've completed your description with Ntype definition.<br>Regards,<br><br>**************************************************************<br> * *<br> * MONTHLY SUMMARY STANDARD REPORT *<br> * *<br> **************************************************************<br> <br> SUMMARY VALUES FOR ALL ZONES COMBINED<br> ****************************************************<br> MONTH HEATING COOLING INFILTR. VENTILAT. SOLAR_RAD. INT_GAINS<br> - [KWH]
[KWH] [KWH] [KWH] [KWH] [KWH]<br> <br>NTYPE 32 33 35 36 42 (38+34) <br><br>NTYPE 32: SQHEAT sum of sensible heating demand for specified zones (positive) [kJ/hr]<br>NTYPE 33: SQCOOL sum of sensible cooling demand for specified zones (positive) [kJ/hr]<br>NTYPE 35: SQINF sum of
sensible infiltration gains of specified zones [kJ/hr]<br>NTYPE 36: SQVENT sum of sensible ventilation gains of specified zones [kJ/hr]<br>NTYPE 38: SQGCONV sum of int. conv. gains of specified zones [kJ/hr]<br>NTYPE 42: SQSOLT sum of shortwave solar radiation transmitted through windows of<br>specified zones (but not kept 100 % in zone) [kJ/hr]<br> <br> <br> ZONE NUMBER IS 1<br> ****************************************************<br> MONTH HEATING COOLING INFILTR. VENTILAT. SOLAR_RAD. INT_GAINS<br> - [KWH] [KWH] [KWH] [KWH]
[KWH] [KWH]<br> <br>NTYPE 30 31 4 5 12 (7+13) <br> <br> NTYPE 4: QINF sensible infiltration energy gain of zone [kJ/hr]<br>NTYPE 5: QVENT sensible ventilation energy gain of zone[kJ/hr]<br>NTYPE 7: QGCONV internal convective gains of zone [kJ/hr]<br>NTYPE 12: QSOLTR total shortwave solar radiation transmitted through external windows of<br>zone (but not kept 100 % in zone)
[kJ/hr]<br>NTYPE 13: QGRAD internal radiative gains of zone [kJ/hr]<br>NTYPE 30: QHEAT sensible heating demand of zone (positive values) [kJ/hr]<br>NTYPE 31: QCOOL sensible cooling demand of zone (positive values) [kJ/hr]<br><br><br><br><br><b><i>trnsys-users-request@engr.wisc.edu</i></b> a écrit :<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to<br> trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu<br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> https://www.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users<br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> trnsys-users-request@engr.wisc.edu<br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> trnsys-users-owner@engr.wisc.edu<br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."<br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Mistake in Type 19
conduction input wall? (Charron)<br> 2. PID controller (mike matheus)<br> 3. Re: Type51 (Diego A. Arias)<br> 4. Re: PID controller (Diego A. Arias)<br> 5. Re: Mistake in Type 19 conduction input wall? (Diego A. Arias)<br> 6. Re: Mistake in Type 19 conduction input wall? (Charron)<br> 7. Re: MONTHLY SUMMARY STANDARD REPORT (Monika Schulz)<br>De: Charron, Rémi <remi.charron@nrcan.gc.ca><br>À: <trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu><br>Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 13:12:31 -0400<br>Objet: [TRNSYS-users] Mistake in Type 19 conduction input wall?<br><br> Hello,<br><br>I believe there is a mistake in the formulation of the conduction input wall for Trnsys Type 19, can someone confirm?<br><br>Equation 4.8.3.22 in the manual states that X_i=(Q_i/A_i +s_i)/hc_i for conduction input walls and that the equivalent temperature should be used in calculating Qi or else the effects of absorption of radiation on the inside surface would not be correctly accounted for.
<br><br>Equivalent temperature includes effects of s_i and the longwave radiation from other surfaces. Wouldn't including s_i in equation 4.8.3.22 be double counting of the absorbed radiation on the surface if T_equivalent is used? If we use zone temperature instead of equivalent temperature, the effect of longwave radiation would not be included.<br><br>Rémi<br><br><br>De: "mike matheus" <matheusmike@hotmail.com><br>À: trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu<br>Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 17:33:03 +0000<br>Objet: [TRNSYS-users] PID controller<br><br> I am creating a project with a PID controller that mixes two air streams to <br>maintain a set hum. ratio, then heats the air mixture in a crossflow heat <br>exchanger. The mixing of the air streams is controlled by the PID and works <br>well as long as the inputs into the heat exchanger are constant. When I add <br>a pump onto the hot side of the heat exchanger with varying conditions, the <br>simulation will not run. I get a
series of warnings about (TRNSYS Message <br>315) connection sequences. Has anybody else had a similar problem with <br>version 16? Any ideas on how to fix it?<br><br>Thank you,<br><br>MIke Matheus<br><br>_________________________________________________________________<br>Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® <br>Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963<br><br><br>De: "Diego A. Arias" <daarias@wisc.edu><br>Cc: trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu<br>À: Amandine LE DENN <amandine.le-denn@tecsol.fr><br>Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 13:28:50 -0500<br>Objet: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Type51<br><br> Hi Amandine,<br><br>In order to solve the mass balance and energy balance that represent the <br>process inside the cooling tower, Type51 uses correlations for the <br>psychrometric properties. Type51 has to perform internal iterations in <br>order to solve those two equations. It is possible that a combination <br>of input
conditions are resulting in a very difficult problem to find a <br>solution for, and the iterations are going out of the limits considered <br>appropriate for the correlations. Did you connect both the dry bulb <br>temperature and the wet bulb temperature inputs of the model to the <br>weather data reader?<br><br>My idea to debug this problem is that you use Type51b, and use the <br>default parameters for the cooling tower. Find the time when the error <br>is occurring, and look at the inlet conditions. Use this values to <br>calculate yourself the outlet conditions in the cooling tower: you can <br>use the mathematical reference (volume 5, section 5.4.17) to do the <br>calculations. Perhaps you may find an input that is causing the problem.<br><br>Please let me know if you have questions debugging this problem.<br>Best regards,<br><br>Diego<br><br>Amandine LE DENN wrote:<br>> Dear users,<br>> <br>> About type51b (cooling tower - user supplied coefficient),
what can be <br>> the different origin of this message:<br>> "the correlation for the saturation temperature used in the cooling <br>> tower model was used with an enthalpy value outisde the allowable range".<br>> <br>> I am using french meteo data and water temperature level <br>> is basically [15°C - 28°C]. Mass transfert constant and exponant are <br>> the default ones, sump volume is 200L.<br>> <br>> Trnsys is generating too many of this error, my simulation stop <br>> automatically after 800 hours.<br>> <br>> Thank you for your help,<br>> <br>> Amandine LE DENN<br>> INSA Toulouse<br>> Mel: amandine.le-denn@tecsol.fr <mailto:amandine.le-denn@tecsol.fr><br>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>> TECSOL<br>> 105 avenue Alfred KASTLER<br>> Tecnosud - B.P 434<br>> 66004 PERPIGNAN cedex<br>> FRANCE<br>> Tel: +33(0)4.68.68.16.40<br>> Fax: +33(0)4.68.68.16.41<br>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> TRNSYS-users mailing list<br>> TRNSYS-users@engr.wisc.edu<br>> https://www.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users<br>> <br><br><br>-- <br><br>Diego A. Arias<br>TRNSYS Coordinator<br>Solar Energy Laboratory<br>University of Wisconsin - Madison<br>1500 Engineering Drive<br>Madison, WI 53706<br><br>De: "Diego A. Arias" <daarias@wisc.edu><br>Cc: trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu<br>À: mike matheus <matheusmike@hotmail.com><br>Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 17:17:35 -0500<br>Objet: Re: [TRNSYS-users] PID controller<br><br> Dear Mike,<br><br>This message is created when the outputs from a component that is <br>updated at the end of a time-step. Is it possible that you have <br>connected the output from an integrator as input to another component?<br>If this is not the case, please feel free to contact your distributor;
<br>they may be able to help you.<br>Best regards,<br><br>Diego<br><br>mike matheus wrote:<br>> I am creating a project with a PID controller that mixes two air <br>> streams to maintain a set hum. ratio, then heats the air mixture in a <br>> crossflow heat exchanger. The mixing of the air streams is controlled <br>> by the PID and works well as long as the inputs into the heat <br>> exchanger are constant. When I add a pump onto the hot side of the <br>> heat exchanger with varying conditions, the simulation will not run. <br>> I get a series of warnings about (TRNSYS Message 315) connection <br>> sequences. Has anybody else had a similar problem with version 16? <br>> Any ideas on how to fix it?<br>><br>> Thank you,<br>><br>> MIke Matheus<br>><br>> _________________________________________________________________<br>> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from <br>> McAfee® Security. <br>>
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963<br>><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> TRNSYS-users mailing list<br>> TRNSYS-users@engr.wisc.edu<br>> https://www.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users<br>> <br><br><br>-- <br><br>Diego A. Arias<br>TRNSYS Coordinator<br>Solar Energy Laboratory<br>University of Wisconsin - Madison<br>1500 Engineering Drive<br>Madison, WI 53706<br><br>De: "Diego A. Arias" <daarias@wisc.edu><br>Cc: trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu<br>À: remi.charron@nrcan.gc.ca<br>Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 19:58:40 -0500<br>Objet: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Mistake in Type 19 conduction input wall?<br><br> Hi Rémi,<br><br>I do not think that there is an error. The formulation of the <br>conductive heat transfer in Type 19 is the result of an energy balance <br>on surface i, as follows:<br><br>Energy in: <br>- Q_i :
Conductive heat transfer<br>- A*s : Radiation absorption on the surface (absorption of solar radiation)<br>Energy out:<br>- A*h_c*(T_s,i - T_z) : convective heat transfer to the zone<br>- A*h_r_ij*(T_s,i - T_s,j) : radiation exchange between surface i and <br>surface j, using a linearized radiation coefficient. (For simplicity, <br>let's assume that there are only two surfaces, i and j)<br><br>Energy balance yields:<br>Q_i + A*s = A*h_c*(T_s,i - T_z) + A*h_r_ij*(T_s,i - T_s,j)<br>You can rearrange these terms as:<br>(Q_i/A + s)/h_c = (1 + h_r_ij/h_c )*T_s,i - h_r_ij/h_c*T_s,j - T_z<br><br>This equation is written in matrix form in equations 5.7.3.19 - <br>5.7.3.22. I guess that the confusion is given by the second part of the <br>paragraph, where it explains that Q_i should be evaluated using T_eq. I <br>have to admit that I am not entire sure of this: if Q_i only has <br>conductive heat transfer through the wall, you would only need the <br>actual temperatures on the
surfaces to calculate it. <br>I will appreciate the comments from the experts on this list.<br>Best regards,<br><br>Diego<br><br>Charron wrote:<br>> Hello,<br>><br>> I believe there is a mistake in the formulation of the conduction input wall for Trnsys Type 19, can someone confirm?<br>><br>> Equation 4.8.3.22 in the manual states that X_i=(Q_i/A_i +s_i)/hc_i for conduction input walls and that the equivalent temperature should be used in calculating Qi or else the effects of absorption of radiation on the inside surface would not be correctly accounted for. <br>><br>> Equivalent temperature includes effects of s_i and the longwave radiation from other surfaces. Wouldn't including s_i in equation 4.8.3.22 be double counting of the absorbed radiation on the surface if T_equivalent is used? If we use zone temperature instead of equivalent temperature, the effect of longwave radiation would not be included.<br>><br>> Rémi<br>><br>>
_______________________________________________<br>> TRNSYS-users mailing list<br>> TRNSYS-users@engr.wisc.edu<br>> https://www.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users<br>> <br><br><br>-- <br><br>Diego A. Arias<br>TRNSYS Coordinator<br>Solar Energy Laboratory<br>University of Wisconsin - Madison<br>1500 Engineering Drive<br>Madison, WI 53706<br><br>De: Charron, Rémi <remi.charron@nrcan.gc.ca><br>Cc: trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu<br>À: "Diego A. Arias " <daarias@wisc.edu><br>Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 11:06:27 -0400<br>Objet: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Mistake in Type 19 conduction input wall?<br><br> Thanks Diego,<br><br>I was mistaken, and your response helped clarify how the equations for conduction input wall works. I believe the reason you need to use equivalent temperatures comes from the energy balance: <br>Q_i + A*s = A*h_c*(T_s,i - T_z) + A*h_r_ij*(T_s,i - T_s,j)<br><br>You can solve the above equation for Q_i as
follows:<br><br>Q_i=A*h_c*(T_S,i-T_eq)<br><br>so you would need to pass T_eq to the program that calculates Q_i for the above energy balance to work.<br><br>Rémi<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Diego A. Arias<br>To: Charron, Rémi<br>Cc: trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu<br>Sent: 03/05/2006 8:58 PM<br>Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Mistake in Type 19 conduction input wall?<br><br>Hi Rémi,<br><br>I do not think that there is an error. The formulation of the <br>conductive heat transfer in Type 19 is the result of an energy balance <br>on surface i, as follows:<br><br>Energy in: <br>- Q_i : Conductive heat transfer<br>- A*s : Radiation absorption on the surface (absorption of solar<br>radiation)<br>Energy out:<br>- A*h_c*(T_s,i - T_z) : convective heat transfer to the zone<br>- A*h_r_ij*(T_s,i - T_s,j) : radiation exchange between surface i and <br>surface j, using a linearized radiation coefficient. (For simplicity, <br>let's assume that there are only two surfaces, i and
j)<br><br>Energy balance yields:<br>Q_i + A*s = A*h_c*(T_s,i - T_z) + A*h_r_ij*(T_s,i - T_s,j)<br>You can rearrange these terms as:<br>(Q_i/A + s)/h_c = (1 + h_r_ij/h_c )*T_s,i - h_r_ij/h_c*T_s,j - T_z<br><br>This equation is written in matrix form in equations 5.7.3.19 - <br>5.7.3.22. I guess that the confusion is given by the second part of the<br><br>paragraph, where it explains that Q_i should be evaluated using T_eq. I<br><br>have to admit that I am not entire sure of this: if Q_i only has <br>conductive heat transfer through the wall, you would only need the <br>actual temperatures on the surfaces to calculate it. <br>I will appreciate the comments from the experts on this list.<br>Best regards,<br><br>Diego<br><br>Charron wrote:<br>> Hello,<br>><br>> I believe there is a mistake in the formulation of the conduction<br>input wall for Trnsys Type 19, can someone confirm?<br>><br>> Equation 4.8.3.22 in the manual states that X_i=(Q_i/A_i
+s_i)/hc_i<br>for conduction input walls and that the equivalent temperature should be<br>used in calculating Qi or else the effects of absorption of radiation on<br>the inside surface would not be correctly accounted for. <br>><br>> Equivalent temperature includes effects of s_i and the longwave<br>radiation from other surfaces. Wouldn't including s_i in equation<br>4.8.3.22 be double counting of the absorbed radiation on the surface if<br>T_equivalent is used? If we use zone temperature instead of equivalent<br>temperature, the effect of longwave radiation would not be included.<br>><br>> Rémi<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> TRNSYS-users mailing list<br>> TRNSYS-users@engr.wisc.edu<br>> https://www.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users<br>> <br><br><br>-- <br><br>Diego A. Arias<br>TRNSYS Coordinator<br>Solar Energy Laboratory<br>University of Wisconsin - Madison<br>1500 Engineering Drive<br>Madison,
WI 53706<br><br><br><br>De: "Monika Schulz" <Schulz@transsolar.com><br>Cc: trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu<br>À: <jfamailbox-i3er@yahoo.fr>, "Diego A. Arias" <daarias@wisc.edu><br>Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 17:01:58 +0200<br>Objet: Re: [TRNSYS-users] MONTHLY SUMMARY STANDARD REPORT<br><br><title>Nachricht</title> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2668" name="GENERATOR"> </mailto:amandine.le-denn@tecsol.fr><div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"><span class="642372706-04052006">Dear Jeff,</span></font></div> <div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"><span class="642372706-04052006"></span></font> </div> <div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"><span class="642372706-04052006">I attach the respective NTYPE numbers to the output description.</span></font></div> <div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div> <div><font color="#0000ff"
face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div> <div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">**************************************************************<br> * *<br> * MONTHLY SUMMARY STANDARD REPORT *<br> * *<br> **************************************************************<br> <br> SUMMARY VALUES FOR ALL ZONES COMBINED<br> ****************************************************<br> MONTH HEATING COOLING INFILTR. VENTILAT. SOLAR_RAD. INT_GAINS<br> - <span class="642372706-04052006"> </span> [KWH] <span
class="642372706-04052006"> </span> [KWH] <span class="642372706-04052006"> </span> [KWH] [KWH] <span class="642372706-04052006"> </span>[KWH] <span class="642372706-04052006"> </span>[KWH]</font></div> <div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div> <div><font color="#0000ff"><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial" size="2"><span class="642372706-04052006">NTYPE 32 33 35
36 42 (38+34) </span></font></font></div><font color="#0000ff"><font color="#000000"></font><font color="#000000"></font><font color="#000000"></font><font color="#000000"></font><font color="#000000"></font><font color="#000000"></font><font color="#000000"></font><font color="#000000"></font><font color="#000000"></font><font color="#000000"></font><font color="#000000"></font> </font><div><font color="#0000ff"><font color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2"></font><br><font face="Arial" size="2"> <br> <br> ZONE NUMBER IS 1<br> ****************************************************<br> MONTH HEATING COOLING INFILTR. VENTILAT.
SOLAR_RAD. INT_GAINS<br> - <span class="642372706-04052006"> </span> [KWH] <span class="642372706-04052006"> </span> [KWH] <span class="642372706-04052006"> </span> [KWH] [KWH] <span class="642372706-04052006"> </span> [KWH] <span class="642372706-04052006"> </span> [KWH]</font></font></div> <div><font color="#0000ff"><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </font></div> <div><span class="642372706-04052006"><font color="#0000ff"><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial" size="2">NTYPE 30
31 4 5 12 (7+13) </font></font></span></div> <div><font color="#0000ff"><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </font></div> <div><font color="#0000ff"><font face="Arial" size="2"><font color="#000000"></font></font> </font></div> <div><span class="642372706-04052006"><font color="#0000ff"><font color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">Kind regards</font></font></span></div> <div><span class="642372706-04052006"><font color="#0000ff"><font color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">Monika</font></font></span></div> <div><font color="#0000ff"><font face="Arial" size="2"><font
color="#000000"><span lang="de"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="1"></font></span></font></font> </font></div> <div><font color="#0000ff"><font face="Arial" size="2"><font color="#000000"><span lang="de"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="1">Hotline Team<br><i><a href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com">mailto:hotline@transsolar.com</a></i></font><i></i><br><br></span></font></font></font></div> <div><font color="#0000ff"><font face="Arial" size="2"><font color="#000000"></font></font> </font></div> <div><font color="#0000ff"><font face="Arial" size="2"><font color="#000000"></font> </font></font></div> <div><font color="#0000ff"><font face="Arial" size="2"><font color="#000000"></font><font color="#000000"></font><font color="#000000"></font><font color="#000000"></font><br></font></font></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"> <div></div> <div
class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left" lang="de"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br><b>Von:</b> trnsys-users-bounces@engr.wisc.edu [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@engr.wisc.edu] <b>Im Auftrag von </b>jfamailbox-i3er@yahoo.fr<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 2. Mai 2006 11:13<br><b>An:</b> trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu<br><b>Betreff:</b> [TRNSYS-users] MONTHLY SUMMARY STANDARD REPORT<br><br></font></div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" lang="DE">Hi all,<br><br>I'm looking for informations about </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" lang="EN-GB">MONTHLY SUMMARY STANDARD REPORT sorted by Type56a</span><br><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" lang="DE"><br>As exemple INT_GAINS is not gain defined in my BUI ?<br><br>Best regards,<br>JeFF<br></span><br><br>------------->JeFF <div> </div><hr size="1"> <b>Faites de Yahoo! votre page
d'accueil sur le web</b> pour retrouver directement vos services préférés : vérifiez vos nouveaux mails, lancez vos recherches et suivez l'actualité en temps réel. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/mail_taglines/yahoofr/*http://fr.yahoo.com/set" target="_blank">Cliquez ici</a>.</blockquote></blockquote><br><p>
<hr size="1" />
<b>Faites de Yahoo! votre page d'accueil sur le web</b> pour retrouver directement vos services préférés : vérifiez vos nouveaux mails, lancez vos recherches et suivez l'actualité en temps réel. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/mail_taglines/yahoofr/*http://fr.yahoo.com/set" target=_blank>Cliquez ici</a>.