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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Scott,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I understand where you are coming from, thanks for your reply.However, it seems to me that the main concern for the reviewer is not accounting for the thermal bridging by the metal studs (even though the metal studs are not really cutting through the insulation as suggested in the comment – Refer to Wall section), and Table A3.1C is not keeping in consideration any metal framing. Like you said, I’m tempted to argue that this is not a metal stud that is causing bridging in the insulation, and therefore follow your suggested value. However I would need to add the steel component as well, and the air gap I included as the air space between the concrete block and the gypsum board, but it’s not necessary? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#17365D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>Catalina Caballero</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>. AIA. Assoc., LEED GA.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><i><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>Sustainability Coordinator<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><i><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:gray'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>Johnson, Avedano, Lopez, Rodriguez & Walewski Engineering Group, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#00B050'>Engineering for High Performance Buildings.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><i><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>MEPF - BIM - LEED - Cx<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'><br>2510 NW 97 Ave, Ste 220, Miami, FL 33172.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>P:</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'> 305.594.0660</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#17365D'> </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'> <b>Ext:</b> 217 </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:black'>Ӏ</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'> <b>F: </b>305.594.0907 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><u><span lang=IT style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'><a 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style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute, copy, or alter this email.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>Please consider the environment before printing this email.</span><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#17365D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#17365D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Scott Parker [mailto:sparker@aeieng.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:13 AM<br><b>To:</b> Bishop, Bill<br><b>Cc:</b> TRACE BLDG-SIM; Caballero, Catalina<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Trace-users] Metal framing in concrete block wall (how to model correctly for LEED)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>Catalina,<o:p></o:p></p><p>I agree with Bill's response, and would add that you need to make sure you account for the mass of the wall. If you just enter an R-value then Trace does not account for the mass. Look at some other defult block walls in Trace for an example. The mass does not change the ultimate U-value, but it will change the load profile due to thermal lag.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Scott<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>On Oct 21, 2014 7:11 PM, "Bishop, Bill" <<a href="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Catalina,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>My interpretation is that the correct ASHRAE 90.1 table for your wall is Table A3.1C. An 8” CB wall, density 115 lb/ft<sup>3</sup>, with insulated, unreinforced cells (none are grouted) gives U-0.21. The R-7.5 that is highlighted in Table A3.1A below is for continuous insulation (per A3.1.2.2), which you do not have. Per A3.1.1, the U-factors in the tables already include R-0.17 and R-0.68 for exterior and interior wall films. Potentially, you could add R-0.56 for the gyp wall to R<sub>u</sub>-4.78 for the Table A3.1C block wall assembly, and get R<sub>eff</sub>-5.34, for an assembly U-0.187. Your TRACE wall construction shown below needs to be modified by changing R-8 CMU to R-3.672 (subtracting your surface resistances = 4.78-.333-.685) and you would have to justify the air gap value or delete it as well.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:black'>William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP </span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:#006600'>|</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:black'> Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=526 style='width:394.8pt;border-collapse:collapse'><tr style='height:13.45pt'><td width=345 style='width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:13.45pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:105%'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Senior Energy Engineer</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=182 rowspan=6 style='width:136.35pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:13.45pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:105%'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><img border=0 width=70 height=47 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image008.jpg@01CFEDE3.A900E140"> <img border=0 width=57 height=49 id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image009.jpg@01CFEDE3.A900E140"></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style='height:4.55pt'><td width=345 valign=top style='width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:4.55pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-line-height-alt:4.55pt'><span style='font-size:5.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style='height:9.8pt'><td width=345 nowrap valign=bottom style='width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:9.8pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:9.8pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>134 South Fitzhugh Street</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rochester, NY 14608</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style='height:12.4pt'><td width=345 valign=top style='width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:12.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:105%'><b><i><span style='font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060'>T: (585) 698-1956</span><span style='color:#002060'> </span></i></b><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>F: (585) 325-6005</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style='height:9.8pt'><td width=345 valign=top style='width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:9.8pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-line-height-alt:9.8pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style='height:24.6pt'><td width=345 valign=top style='width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:24.6pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:3.0pt;line-height:105%'><span style='color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=42 height=40 id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image010.png@01CFEDE3.A900E140" alt="http://png-5.findicons.com/files/icons/977/rrze/720/globe.png"></span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;line-height:105%;color:#00B0F0'>Carbon Fee and Dividend - simple, effective, and market-based.</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Trace-users [<a href="mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Caballero, Catalina<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 21, 2014 11:32 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org'<br><b>Subject:</b> [Trace-users] Metal framing in concrete block wall (how to model correctly for LEED)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Good morning experts,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I have a question, we have received a comment from a LEED reviewer requesting for the following information:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i>Table 1.4 of the template appears to indicate that all the assembly U-value for the exterior walls in the Proposed model may not account for the thermal breaks due to the steel-framing portion of the construction assembly. Each construction assembly U-value is not a direct inverse of the insulation R-value for that construction assembly. The R-value of the insulation located between the steel framing must be de-rated when determining the assembly U-value for the exterior wall assembly to account for the reduced thermal resistance of the metal framing components. Revise the Proposed model, as needed, so that all components of the exterior wall construction assembly are accounted for when calculating the assembly U-value for assembly type in the actual design. In addition, update Table 1.4 reflecting the changes. Refer to Table A3.3 in ASHRAE Standard 90.1-2004 for additional guidance regarding how to de-rate the R-value for insulation located between steel framing assemblies.</i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i> </i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>We have the following wall composition in the project:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><img border=0 width=435 height=345 id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image011.jpg@01CFEDE3.A900E140"></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i> </i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>And we are using the following assembly value: U-0.125 (= R8 Assembly) based on table A3.1A .<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><img border=0 width=685 height=176 id="_x0000_i1029" src="cid:image012.jpg@01CFEDE3.A900E140"></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><img border=0 width=683 height=118 id="_x0000_i1030" src="cid:image013.jpg@01CFEDE3.A900E140"></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i> </i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>However since this table in my understanding is only accounting for the <b><u>concrete block, the insulation and the metal framing</u></b>, I have added the <b>5/8” gypsum board (layer 1)</b> and the <b>5/8” hardie board (layer 7)</b> to the modeled assembly as below.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=591 height=398 id="Picture_x0020_5" src="cid:image014.jpg@01CFEDE3.A900E140"><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Do you think the reviewer would object in any of this process? Or do you consider it should be done differently?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thank you for your answers, greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i> </i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>Catalina Caballero</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>. AIA. Assoc., LEED GA.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><i><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>Sustainability Coordinator</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><i><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:gray'> </span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>Johnson, Avedano, Lopez, Rodriguez & Walewski Engineering Group, Inc.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#00B050'>Engineering for High Performance Buildings.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><i><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>MEPF - BIM - LEED - Cx</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'><br>2510 NW 97 Ave, Ste 220, Miami, FL 33172.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'>P:</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'> 305.594.0660</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#17365D'> </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'> <b>Ext:</b> 217 </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:black'>Ӏ</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'> <b>F: </b>305.594.0907 </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><u><span lang=IT style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black'><a 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