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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">There is absolutely no reason to model every single room in TRACE for an Appendix G model. That could be a huge waste of time. Now if the team used TRACE for load and design calcs then a lot of work is already
done using that same load file as the starting point for the energy model. In Appendix G, Table G3.1, #7 allows this and CDS has at least two excellent write-ups in their knowledge center giving examples on how to do this. Multi-zone systems should have the
design block airflow entered under the Advanced system options and the block coil capacities under the coils tab. Proper tuning of a Proposed model must be done and not taken lightly so as to assure the proper load inputs have been made such that the entered
loads align with the design coils and airflows. TRACE isn’t magic. If you enter 20,000 cfm as the block airflow for a VAV system and nowhere near or way too much load has been input, that will lead to big problems such as unmet hours and improper equipment
unloading.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">It’s all a tradeoff. You’re either going to spend a lot of time entering hundreds or thousands of rooms or you’re going to spend your time creating intelligent thermal blocks and tuning you’re Proposed model.
I’ve found there’s significant time savings going the thermal block route but it does require more pre-planning. Proper use of templates goes a long ways too.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Scott Hintz<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">CEM, LEED-AP BD+C, BEMP</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#17365D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#17365D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#17365D">HVAC & Compressed Air<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#17365D">Systems Engineering (SE)<br>
</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><img width="55" height="9" id="_x0000_i1029" src="cid:image001.png@01CFE23F.80EB6040" alt="cid:image003.jpg@01CB8011.2E333BA0">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#17365D">Federal Technical Services</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#17365D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#17365D">Kennedy Space Center, FL 32899<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> Craig Gann [mailto:cjg04austin@swbell.net]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 07, 2014 12:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Scott Parker; Steve Jacobs; 'Caballero, Catalina'; trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Trace-users] Load Calcs vs Energy Model for LEED<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I communicated with CDS about this a couple of months ago. It's a royal pain in the @#$ to do this! What you have to do is go to the rooms and manually enter the CFM for each room such that it totals up to the
desired CFM at the system level. This means you have to first figure out which rooms are assigned to each system then figure out how much to change each room CFM such that it totals to what you want then print out the calculated room CFM values. Not easy if
you have hundreds of rooms. I wound up putting it all in Excel so I could figure out a room CFM multiplier that changed each room CFM by the percentage needed. It took me a half day to mess with this and is a major deficiency in the Trace software IMHO.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Craig J. Gann, P.E.; LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 10/7/2014 11:18 AM, Scott Parker wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I agree that the proposed system model should have the same capacity as the actual equipment. However, the challenge is that when you fix the leaving air temperature of the air handler (which matches typical
design) then Trace does not allow any method for fixing the air handler CFM capacity.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><u><span style="color:#1F497D">For example, below I have just listed some numbers for reference to illustrate the point:</span></u></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Sum of Peaks = 19,458 CFM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Block load = 18,902 CFM (actual maximum hourly airflow in Trace will typically be even less than this value)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">AHU size = 20,000 CFM (scheduled on plans)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">AHU size in trace = block load (18,902 CFM) – no way to force it to be 20,000 CFM.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Therefore, when the air handler (in Trace) is at 18,902 CFM it is at peak fan power (i.e. top of fan curve). However, it actually is already part way down the true fan curve since the unit is scheduled for 20,000
CFM. If you use the theoretical fan laws, then the fan power at 18,902 CFM is 84% of the scheduled break horsepower - (18,902/20,000)^3 = 0.84 -- even though the fan is operating at 94.5% of peak fan power.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">If anyone has a work around for this I would like to hear it. For me I have had to manually change the kW/CFM value to match the actual scheduled fan at the block airflow calculated in Trace.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:105%;color:#660000;text-transform:uppercase">Scott Parker</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;color:#333333"> PE<br>
LEED AP BD+C <br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:105%;color:black;text-transform:uppercase">Mechanical</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<td width="10" valign="top" style="width:7.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;color:#660000">AEI</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;color:#333333"> | AFFILIATED ENGINEERS, INC. <br>
1414 Raleigh Road, Suite 305 | Chapel Hill, NC 27517<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;color:#660000">P: 919.419.9802 | F: 919.419.9803</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;color:#333333"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:105%"><a href="mailto:sparker@aeieng.com"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;color:#660000;text-decoration:none">sparker@aeieng.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;color:#660000">
| </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:105%"><a href="http://www.aeieng.com/"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;color:#660000;text-decoration:none">www.aeieng.com</span></b></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;color:#333333">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Trace-users [<a href="mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Jacobs<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 07, 2014 11:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Caballero, Catalina'; <a href="mailto:trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Trace-users] Load Calcs vs Energy Model for LEED<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Your proposed inputs need to match what is actually being installed in the building. If they are installing oversized equipment, you need to model oversized equipment. The model will account for part load efficiencies.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="color:#1F497D">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="color:#1F497D">Steve</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Trace-users [<a href="mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Caballero, Catalina<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 7, 2014 9:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org">trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Trace-users] Load Calcs vs Energy Model for LEED</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello experts,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We <span style="font-size:10.0pt">recently received comments back from LEED and one of the comments says the following:
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#444444">It appears the equipment capacities (fan volume, fan power, cooling capacity, etc.) for the HVAC systems in the Proposed model</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#444444">are inconsistent with the equipment capacities in the actual design when comparing the LEED Energy Performance Summary Report</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#444444">to the mechanical schedules provided for PIf4: Schedule and Overview Documents</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#444444">G3.1.10 in the Proposed building column requires that the Proposed model reflect all HVAC systems at actual equipment capacities</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#444444">and efficiencies. The HVAC equipment capacities cannot be autosized in the Proposed model. Revise the Proposed model to reflect</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#444444">all HVAC systems at actual equipment capacities. In addition, update Table 1.4.7B, and provide a revised LEED Energy Performance</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#444444">Summary Report and the System Enterd Values reports for the Proposed model reflecting the changes. Further, if the equipment</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#444444">capacities and efficiencies are based on updated mechanical schedules and/or HVAC submittal sheets, provide the updated</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#444444">mechanical schedules and/or HVAC submittal sheets.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#444444"> </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red">The only question that I have is why would they require for the airflows, to be exactly the same, to the original load calculations when the load calculations looks for the worst case scenario (using ashrae basic
envelope, lighting, values), while the energy model looks for the most energy efficient model (actual installed envelope, occupancy, etc). It make sense that they are looking for something similar but it’s definitely not going to match the capacities and or
airflows, (load calcs tend to be oversized).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would greatly appreciate your opinion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Catalina Caballero</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt">. AIA. Assoc., LEED GA.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Sustainability Coordinator</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt"> </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Johnson, Avedano, Lopez, Rodriguez & Walewski Engineering Group, Inc.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Engineering for High Performance Buildings.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt">MEPF - BIM - LEED - Cx</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt">P:</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt"> 305.594.0660 <b>Ext:</b> 217
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</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt">| <a href="ccaballero@jalrw.com%20"><span style="color:black">ccaballero@jalrw.com</span></a>
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<pre>Trace-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trace-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trace-users-onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:TRACE-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">TRACE-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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