<font size=2 face="sans-serif">It may be easier to split the building
into two separate files instead of trying to model the effect of two separate
ground loops in one model when the software won't allow it. You can use
partitions with the adjacent space temperature method of Prorated to get
the interactive effects of interior walls between spaces with different
temperature set points without including the adjacent space in each of
the models (helpful for where you are splitting the building). Without
knowing the specifics of your model, that's all that I can think of at
the moment.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Good luck,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><b>Alex N. Chapin, </b></font><font size=2 color=#008000 face="sans-serif"><b>LEED
AP BD+C</b></font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Sustainability Program Engineer</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><b>SRI Quality System Registrar</b></font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">300 Northpointe Circle, Suite 304</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Seven Fields, PA 16046</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">phone: 724.934.9000 x619; fax: 724.934.9145</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">AChapin@sriregistrar.com</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"Caballero, Catalina"
<ccaballero@jalrw.com></font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"'Sturm, Eric'"
<esturm@trane.com>, "AChapin@sriregistrar.com" <AChapin@sriregistrar.com>,
</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Cc:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
<trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org></font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">11/29/2012 09:52 AM</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">RE: [Trace-users]
Multiple Ground source Heatpump in one alternative</font>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">Correct. That’s what happened
when I tried modeling it. If you have additional comments or suggestions
please let me know.</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Catalina Caballero, AIA. Assoc., LEED GA.</font>
<p>
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220, Miami, Florida 33172</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#004080 face="Arial">Tel. (305) 594-0660 Ext. 217
Fax (305) 594-0907</font>
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<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[</font><a href="mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><font size=2 face="Tahoma">mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sturm, Eric<b><br>
Sent:</b> Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:37 AM<b><br>
To:</b> AChapin@sriregistrar.com<b><br>
Cc:</b> trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org<b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [Trace-users] Multiple Ground source Heatpump in one alternative</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Alex,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">The interface will allow you to specify more
than one ground heat exchanger, however the results presented for the second
loop (as determined by the order of entry) cannot be used. Only one
may be simulated per alternative. In your results from an error scan,
you should see a fatal error associated with multiple ground loops. </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Eric Sturm</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Applications Engineer</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Trane Commercial Systems</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Ingersoll Rand</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">3600 Pammel Creek Rd</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">La Crosse, WI 54601</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Office: +1.608.787.3736</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Fax: +1.608.787.3005</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Email: </font><a href=mailto:esturm@trane.com><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><u>esturm@trane.com</u></font></a>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Website: </font><a href=http://www.trane.com/><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><u>www.trane.com</u></font></a>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> </font><a href="mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma">
[</font><a href="mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b></font><a href=mailto:AChapin@sriregistrar.com><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>AChapin@sriregistrar.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma"><b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 28, 2012 3:41 PM<b><br>
To:</b> </font><a href="mailto:trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org"><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma"><b><br>
Subject:</b> [Trace-users] Multiple Ground source Heatpump in one alternative</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Eric,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
I am surprised to hear you say that TRACE will not allow two separate ground
loops in a single file because if you create multiple cooling plants with
ground loops, you are allowed to specify different parameters for "TLoop
Ent Bldg" under Plant Controls, Geothermal Loop. When you run the
model, you even get different energy use results for each cooling plant
(GSHP) when you have two identical rooms with one assigned to each cooling
plant (since the temperature of the ground loop is different based on TLoop
Ent Bldg). This implies that there are two separate loops, otherwise the
one loop would have two different entering temperatures simultaneously.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Catalina, does that address the question that you asked?</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><b><br>
Alex N. Chapin, </b></font><font size=2 color=#008000 face="Arial"><b>LEED
AP BD+C</b></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Sustainability Program Engineer</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><b><br>
SRI Quality System Registrar</b></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
300 Northpointe Circle, Suite 304</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Seven Fields, PA 16046</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
phone: 724.934.9000 x619; fax: 724.934.9145</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><u><br>
</u></font><a href=mailto:AChapin@sriregistrar.com><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><u>AChapin@sriregistrar.com</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 21:48:11 +0000<br>
From: "Sturm, Eric" <</font><a href=mailto:esturm@trane.com><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>esturm@trane.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New">><br>
To: "Caballero, Catalina" <</font><a href=mailto:ccaballero@jalrw.com><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>ccaballero@jalrw.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New">><br>
Cc: "'trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org'"<br>
<</font><a href="mailto:trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org"><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New">><br>
Subject: Re: [Trace-users] Multiple Ground source Heatpump in one<br>
alternative<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<</font><a href="mailto:B15E874B9BE11D42A67F232B539E6F9B275D48@012-BR1MPN1-011.mgdir.irco.com"><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>B15E874B9BE11D42A67F232B539E6F9B275D48@012-BR1MPN1-011.mgdir.irco.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New">><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Catalina,<br>
<br>
This is a complex scenario to model in TRACE 700 and I wanted to shed some
light on what is possible and not possible.<br>
<br>
The limitations you're finding are related to how system coils are assigned
to equipment (plants), and ground heat exchangers. TRACE 700 can
only model a single ground heat exchanger per alternative and system coils
(e.g. cooling and heating coils) are assigned to a plant, rather than an
individual piece of equipment. In your scenario, you may have one
or two ground loops but you'll only be able to model a single loop in the
alternative. This limitation prevents you from modeling the systems
independently.<br>
<br>
If you create two ground source heat pump pieces of equipment, you'll still
need to assign these to a single plant. Doing so does not allow you
to independently operate each plant based upon system coil load because
cooling and heating coils are assigned to plants rather than equipment.
The sequencing options will not help you in this instance.<br>
<br>
To model this system, you'll need to make a ground source heat pump system
as shown in the User's Manual. You can make a single cooling plant
(water source heat pump equipment type) and modify the energy rate and
ground loop information as you desire. You may wish to use a composite
energy rate the best represents all heat pumps on the ground loop(s).<br>
<br>
I suspect that the information you received from C.D.S. is correct in that
you can model two separate heat pump plants, but you cannot model two separate
ground loops in a single file.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Eric Sturm<br>
Applications Engineer<br>
Trane Commercial Systems<br>
Ingersoll Rand<br>
3600 Pammel Creek Rd<br>
La Crosse, WI 54601<br>
<br>
Office: +1.608.787.3736<br>
Fax: +1.608.787.3005<br>
Email: esturm@trane.com<</font><a href=mailto:esturm@trane.com><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>mailto:esturm@trane.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New">><br>
Website: </font><a href=www.trane.com><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>www.trane.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
From: </font><a href="mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New">
[</font><a href="mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New">]
On Behalf Of Caballero, Catalina<br>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 2:57 PM<br>
To: 'trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org'<br>
Subject: [Trace-users] Multiple Ground source Heatpump in one alternative<br>
<br>
Good afternoon,<br>
<br>
I'm trying to find out a way to model 2 ground source heat pumps in an
alternative. One of these systems serves an exhibition spaces, and the
other one serves a mechanical room. When I call CDS some representatives
say it's possible, others don't think so, making it more confusing. Anybody
has experience with this issue?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Catalina Caballero, AIA. Assoc., LEED GA.<br>
Johnson, Avedano, Lopez, Rodriguez & Walewski<br>
Engineering Group, Inc.<br>
<br>
2510 NW 97th Avenue, Suite 220, Miami, Florida 33172<br>
Tel. (305) 594-0660 Ext. 217 Fax (305) 594-0907<br>
<br>
Visit us online: </font><a href=www.jalrw.com><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>www.jalrw.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New"><</font><a href=http://www.jalrw.com/><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>http://www.jalrw.com/</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New">></font>
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