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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Correct. That’s what happened when I tried modeling it. If you have additional comments or suggestions please let me know.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Catalina Caballero, AIA. Assoc., LEED GA.</span><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td width=497 valign=top style='width:373.1pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Johnson, Avedano, Lopez, Rodriguez & Walewski<br>Engineering Group, Inc.</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=497 valign=top style='width:373.1pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>2510 NW 97th Avenue, Suite 220, Miami, Florida 33172</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tel. (305) 594-0660 Ext. 217 Fax (305) 594-0907</span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td></tr><tr><td width=497 valign=top style='width:373.1pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Visit us online: <a href="http://www.jalrw.com/">www.jalrw.com</a></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=210 height=78 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CDCE17.51310870" alt="JALRW Logo"></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=497 valign=top style='width:373.1pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>HVAC - Electrical - Plumbing - Fire Protection<br>Sustainable Development - Commissioning</span></b><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'> </span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td width=499 valign=top style='width:5.2in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the email to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is strictly prohibited.</span><b><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sturm, Eric<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:37 AM<br><b>To:</b> AChapin@sriregistrar.com<br><b>Cc:</b> trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Trace-users] Multiple Ground source Heatpump in one alternative<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Alex,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The interface will allow you to specify more than one ground heat exchanger, however the results presented for the second loop (as determined by the order of entry) cannot be used. Only one may be simulated per alternative. In your results from an error scan, you should see a fatal error associated with multiple ground loops. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Eric Sturm</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Applications Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Trane Commercial Systems</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Ingersoll Rand</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>3600 Pammel Creek Rd</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>La Crosse, WI 54601</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Office: +1.608.787.3736</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Fax: +1.608.787.3005</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Email: <a href="mailto:esturm@trane.com"><span style='color:windowtext'>esturm@trane.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Website: <u><a href="http://www.trane.com">www.trane.com</a></u></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:AChapin@sriregistrar.com">AChapin@sriregistrar.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 28, 2012 3:41 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org">trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Trace-users] Multiple Ground source Heatpump in one alternative</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Eric,</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I am surprised to hear you say that TRACE will not allow two separate ground loops in a single file because if you create multiple cooling plants with ground loops, you are allowed to specify different parameters for "TLoop Ent Bldg" under Plant Controls, Geothermal Loop. When you run the model, you even get different energy use results for each cooling plant (GSHP) when you have two identical rooms with one assigned to each cooling plant (since the temperature of the ground loop is different based on TLoop Ent Bldg). This implies that there are two separate loops, otherwise the one loop would have two different entering temperatures simultaneously.</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Catalina, does that address the question that you asked?</span> <br><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Alex N. Chapin, <span style='color:green'>LEED AP BD+C</span></span></b> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sustainability Program Engineer</span> <br><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>SRI Quality System Registrar</span></b> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>300 Northpointe Circle, Suite 304</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Seven Fields, PA 16046</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>phone: 724.934.9000 x619; fax: 724.934.9145</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:AChapin@sriregistrar.com">AChapin@sriregistrar.com</a></span> <br><br><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 21:48:11 +0000</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br><tt>From: "Sturm, Eric" <<a href="mailto:esturm@trane.com">esturm@trane.com</a>></tt><br><tt>To: "Caballero, Catalina" <<a href="mailto:ccaballero@jalrw.com">ccaballero@jalrw.com</a>></tt><br><tt>Cc: "'trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org'"</tt><br><tt> <<a href="mailto:trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org">trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>></tt><br><tt>Subject: Re: [Trace-users] Multiple Ground source Heatpump in one</tt><br><tt> alternative</tt><br><tt>Message-ID:</tt><br><tt> <<a href="mailto:B15E874B9BE11D42A67F232B539E6F9B275D48@012-BR1MPN1-011.mgdir.irco.com">B15E874B9BE11D42A67F232B539E6F9B275D48@012-BR1MPN1-011.mgdir.irco.com</a>></tt><br><tt> </tt><br><tt>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"</tt><br><br><tt>Catalina,</tt><br><br><tt>This is a complex scenario to model in TRACE 700 and I wanted to shed some light on what is possible and not possible.</tt><br><br><tt>The limitations you're finding are related to how system coils are assigned to equipment (plants), and ground heat exchangers. TRACE 700 can only model a single ground heat exchanger per alternative and system coils (e.g. cooling and heating coils) are assigned to a plant, rather than an individual piece of equipment. In your scenario, you may have one or two ground loops but you'll only be able to model a single loop in the alternative. This limitation prevents you from modeling the systems independently.</tt><br><br><tt>If you create two ground source heat pump pieces of equipment, you'll still need to assign these to a single plant. Doing so does not allow you to independently operate each plant based upon system coil load because cooling and heating coils are assigned to plants rather than equipment. The sequencing options will not help you in this instance.</tt><br><br><tt>To model this system, you'll need to make a ground source heat pump system as shown in the User's Manual. You can make a single cooling plant (water source heat pump equipment type) and modify the energy rate and ground loop information as you desire. You may wish to use a composite energy rate the best represents all heat pumps on the ground loop(s).</tt><br><br><tt>I suspect that the information you received from C.D.S. is correct in that you can model two separate heat pump plants, but you cannot model two separate ground loops in a single file.</tt><br><br><tt>Regards,</tt><br><tt>Eric Sturm</tt><br><tt>Applications Engineer</tt><br><tt>Trane Commercial Systems</tt><br><tt>Ingersoll Rand</tt><br><tt>3600 Pammel Creek Rd</tt><br><tt>La Crosse, WI 54601</tt><br><br><tt>Office: +1.608.787.3736</tt><br><tt>Fax: +1.608.787.3005</tt><br><tt>Email: esturm@trane.com<</tt></span><a href="mailto:esturm@trane.com"><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>mailto:esturm@trane.com</span></tt></a><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>></span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br><tt>Website: </tt></span><a href="www.trane.com"><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.trane.com</span></tt></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br><br><tt>From: <a href="mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [</tt></span><a href="mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>mailto:trace-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</span></tt></a><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>] On Behalf Of Caballero, Catalina</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br><tt>Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 2:57 PM</tt><br><tt>To: 'trace-users@lists.onebuilding.org'</tt><br><tt>Subject: [Trace-users] Multiple Ground source Heatpump in one alternative</tt><br><br><tt>Good afternoon,</tt><br><br><tt>I'm trying to find out a way to model 2 ground source heat pumps in an alternative. One of these systems serves an exhibition spaces, and the other one serves a mechanical room. When I call CDS some representatives say it's possible, others don't think so, making it more confusing. Anybody has experience with this issue?</tt><br><br><tt>Regards,</tt><br><br><tt>Catalina Caballero, AIA. Assoc., LEED GA.</tt><br><tt>Johnson, Avedano, Lopez, Rodriguez & Walewski</tt><br><tt>Engineering Group, Inc.</tt><br><br><tt>2510 NW 97th Avenue, Suite 220, Miami, Florida 33172</tt><br><tt>Tel. (305) 594-0660 Ext. 217 Fax (305) 594-0907</tt><br><br><tt>Visit us online: </tt></span><a href="www.jalrw.com"><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.jalrw.com</span></tt></a><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><</span></tt><a href="http://www.jalrw.com/"><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>http://www.jalrw.com/</span></tt></a><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>></span></tt><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'><br>The information contained in this message is privileged and intended only for the recipients named. If the reader is not a representative of the intended recipient, any review, dissemination or copying of this message or the information it contains is prohibited. 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