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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks. I am going to go with option 2. Just wanted another opinion to confirm it was an acceptable practice. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Magneto;color:#1F497D'>Matt Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>N.E. Fisher & Associates, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>329 East Second St, 2<sup>nd </sup>Flr<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Boyertown, PA 19512<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>e: mscott@nefisher.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>p: 610-369-3190<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>f: 610-369-3194<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Adam.Boyd@ch2m.com [mailto:Adam.Boyd@ch2m.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 15, 2013 11:45 AM<br><b>To:</b> Matthew Scott<br><b>Cc:</b> hap-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: LEED modeling for space served by RTU and SSAC<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Create a dummy space of 1 sq ft that is for the ventilation. Then use a separate small AC system on the actual space with all the loads. You may end up with some unmet load hours on the dummy space that will need explaining to LEED, but I’ve had this approach approved several times with HAP. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Because the ventilation rate is so small, another option would be to put the 40 cfm to another space, or split it among several spaces. This will likely have no measurable effect on system performance, but still captures the correct overall CFM of the unit. Then serve the AV room with a separate system.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#365F91'>Adam T. Boyd PE*</span></b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5A5A5A'><br></span><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#76923C'><br></span></b><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#365F91'>CH2M HILL</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br></span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5A5A5A'>1100 NE Circle Blvd.<br>Building 10, Suite 300<br>Corvallis, OR 97330<br>Direct 541.768.3355</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br><a href="http://www.ch2mhill.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#416AC8'>www.ch2mhill.com</span></a></span><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#76923C'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>*</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5A5A5A'> CA, OR</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:hap-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">hap-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:hap-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:hap-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Matthew Scott<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:11 AM<br><b>To:</b> Systems, Software CCS<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:hap-users@lists.onebuilding.org">hap-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Hap-users] LEED modeling for space served by RTU and SSAC<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Sorry I wasn’t clear. The equipment is actually already sized and selected. I’m just looking for a good way to include the setup in my building simulation for LEED. You’re right; the ventilation load is being neutralized by the RTU, but somehow I need to account for both that energy required to neutralize the ventilation air and then also the energy required to cool the space, but split between the two systems that are handling each component of the load. Is the way I am modeling this situation acceptable or is there a better way to do it? Or am I missing something and it’s completely off base?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Ideally HAP would allow me to specify how much CFM that specific space gets (as well as all of the other spaces supplied by the system) and then choose an auxiliary cooling unit for just that space to cover the internal heat gain, kind of analogous to selecting a zone heating unit. Just a suggestion for future HAP features. </span><span style='font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Magneto;color:#1F497D'>Matt Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>N.E. Fisher & Associates, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>329 East Second St, 2<sup>nd </sup>Flr<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Boyertown, PA 19512<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>e: <a href="mailto:mscott@nefisher.com">mscott@nefisher.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>p: 610-369-3190<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>f: 610-369-3194<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Systems, Software CCS [<a href="mailto:Software.Systems@carrier.utc.com">mailto:Software.Systems@carrier.utc.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 15, 2013 8:46 AM<br><b>To:</b> Matthew Scott<br><b>Subject:</b> LEED modeling for space served by RTU and SSAC<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>HELLO SEE MY INPUTS IN ALL CAPS PLEASE... HOPE THIS HELPS..<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>Robert Feduik, P.E. LEED BD&C </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'> | East Regional Software Manager | Carrier Corporation</span><span style='color:#1F497D'> <br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'><a href="mailto:Software.systems@carrier.utc.com">Software.systems@carrier.utc.com</a></span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:hap-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">hap-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:hap-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:hap-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Matthew Scott<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:54 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:hap-users@lists.onebuilding.org">hap-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [External] [Hap-users] LEED modeling for space served by RTU and SSAC<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I have an AV equipment room with virtually no envelope loss, but a steady internal heat gain. The space is receiving 40 cfm of from an RTU VAV system to fulfill the ventilation requirement of the space, but then the actual cooling is being handled by a dedicated split system air conditioner.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>SO THE VENTILATION LOAD IS BEING “NEUTRALIZED” BY ANOTHER UNIT...SO IT IS TAKEN OUT OF THE EQUATION....SO CANT WE JUST FORGET ABOUT IT? DO WE ONLY CARE ABOUT SIZING THE SPLIT SYSTEM? ARE YOU RUNNING AN OPCOST ON ONE OR BOTH?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>My thought is to model two separate systems as follows:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>RTU for ventilation:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Input the space minus the internal equipment heat gain and add it to the relevant zone on the RTU. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Dedicated SSAC:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Input a “duplicate” of the space except make it only 1-sqft in area as to not greatly add to the modeled square footage of the building, and only include the internal equipment load, and not the envelope, lighting or people inputs.<span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Magneto'>Matt Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>N.E. Fisher & Associates, Inc.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>329 East Second St, 2<sup>nd </sup>Flr<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Boyertown, PA 19512<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>e: <a href="mailto:mscott@nefisher.com">mscott@nefisher.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>p: 610-369-3190<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>f: 610-369-3194<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>