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<p class="MsoNormal">For those reading but still wondering what we’re talking about, here are some system descriptions and schematics from this application guide from York.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.johnsoncontrols.com/-/media/jci/be/united-states/airside-systems/air-handling-units/files/be_appguide_multizone_ahu.pdf?la=en&hash=6E1545B6DDE404270B6FA63B3B32AAB607C17414">Multizone Application of Solution Units (johnsoncontrols.com)</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As infrequently as we see multizone units still running, an even smaller group of them need to be modeled in a whole building modeling program so it’s getting kind of rare to model one. Most of these are smaller and would be replaced without
a modeling effort.<o:p></o:p></p>
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There are a few of the larger DD systems still out there as deep retrofit candidates so maybe more likely to be modeled. I’ve got my eye on one in particular.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">David S. Eldridge, Jr.</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#244061">, P</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">.</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#244061">E</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">.</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#244061">,
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Melissa Crowe <MCrowe@cmta.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 15, 2022 8:45:50 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Eldridge <DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com>; John Aulbach <jra_sac@yahoo.com>; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org <equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Dual Duct with package Cooling</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal">I have learned something. Thank you. I have actually never had to model a system like that but you are correct, I have looked at them all but misunderstood the Multizone. I see there are actually several dual duct systems. Packaged
Multi zone is DX, Multizone is CHW and then there is Dual Duct CHW. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">Say something ignorant…learn something new.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#339545">Melissa Crowe, BEMP, LEED AP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:#241E21">Sr Mechanical/Energy Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><b>From:</b> David Eldridge <DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 14, 2022 7:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Melissa Crowe <MCrowe@cmta.com>; John Aulbach <jra_sac@yahoo.com>; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Dual Duct with package Cooling<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal" style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFDB58"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">EXTERNAL SENDER:
</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">This email originated outside of CMTA. Do not click links or open attachments unless you know the sender and know the content is safe.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal">It is – this is a multizone system with hot deck and cold deck where it blends the two airflows to satisfy the zones, taking constant flow overall with proportion of cold and hot deck air. The mixing takes place at the AHU though and a
single duct goes out to the zone as opposed to the dual-duct approach. The size of the units is limited since there isn’t enough room for ductwork branches, I’ve usually seen these from three to seven zones. So in that regard it makes sense for a DX although
I’ve mostly seen these in university buildings which do have CHW and HW or steam, sometimes at hotels.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">For the dual-duct AHU where the mixing takes place at the zone, you can have a much higher number of zones since the space isn’t constrained at the discharge air location so I can see that DD AHUs I’ve seen would be very large and tend
to be CHW and HW/Steam and not DX. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">So I think it’s probably the best approximation to use the multizone template.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">The chiller idea would give another approach but could have part load performance different than the DX system would have, but also a way to attempt a workaround.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">David<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">David S. Eldridge, Jr.</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#244061">, P</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">.</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#244061">E</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">.</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#244061">,
BEMP, BEAP, HBDP, GGF/A</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="xmsonormal"><b>From:</b> Melissa Crowe <<a href="mailto:MCrowe@cmta.com">MCrowe@cmta.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 14, 2022 4:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Eldridge <<a href="mailto:DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com">DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com</a>>; John Aulbach <<a href="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com">jra_sac@yahoo.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Dual Duct with package Cooling<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">I replied too fast the multi zone is only DX will not allow CHW.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">However this is not thermally equivalent to Dual Duct where you can cool one zone while heating the other with out reheating.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#339545">Melissa Crowe, BEMP, LEED AP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:#241E21">Sr Mechanical/Energy Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="color:#241E21">161 Worcester Road, Suite 305</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="color:#241E21">Framingham, MA 01701</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="color:#241E21">O: 508.647.9200 </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="xmsonormal"><b>From:</b> David Eldridge <<a href="mailto:DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com">DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 14, 2022 5:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Melissa Crowe <<a href="mailto:MCrowe@cmta.com">MCrowe@cmta.com</a>>; John Aulbach <<a href="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com">jra_sac@yahoo.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Dual Duct with package Cooling<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="left" width="100%" style="width:100.0%">
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<p class="xmsonormal" style="mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#212121">You don't often get email from
<a href="mailto:deldridge@grummanbutkus.com">deldridge@grummanbutkus.com</a>. <a href="https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification">
Learn why this is important</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="color:white"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:solid red 2.25pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
<p class="xmsonormal" style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFDB58"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">EXTERNAL SENDER:
</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">This email originated outside of CMTA. Do not click links or open attachments unless you know the sender and know the content is safe.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="xmsonormal">Does it let you pick DX for the multizone AHU type?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">David<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">David S. Eldridge, Jr.</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#244061">, P</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">.</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#244061">E</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">.</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#244061">,
BEMP, BEAP, HBDP, GGF/A</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#365F91">Direct: (847) 316-92</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">24</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:#365F91">
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="xmsonormal"><b>From:</b> Equest-users <<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Melissa Crowe via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 14, 2022 3:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Aulbach <<a href="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com">jra_sac@yahoo.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Dual Duct with package Cooling<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">Hi John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">If by packaged Cooing you mean Air Cooled DX then, how about trying:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="xmsolistparagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Dual Duct system w. CHW
<o:p></o:p></li><li class="xmsolistparagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">“Chiller” = Air cooled with appropriate compressor type (recip or scroll) and count<o:p></o:p></li><li class="xmsolistparagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Pump power = 0<o:p></o:p></li><li class="xmsolistparagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">CHW supply temperature = ~ DX evaporator T<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">Good luck<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#339545">Melissa Crowe, BEMP, LEED AP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:#241E21">Sr Mechanical/Energy Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="line-height:150%"><a href="https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cmta.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7CMCrowe%40cmta.com%7C0a1dc0c1420e4f3973c108da4e5d2151%7C7bb63ee7a3e14d75b5a56f9549f171a3%7C0%7C0%7C637908459166212813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WA%2FXtwA1C6JIpj9jz9CSQ9o%2BBlIaHI8L%2FW90zkPjFtY%3D&reserved=0"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="143" height="42" style="width:1.4895in;height:.4375in" id="x_Picture_x0020_17" src="cid:image001.png@01D8809B.BE2FF5D0"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="color:#241E21">161 Worcester Road, Suite 305</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="color:#241E21">Framingham, MA 01701</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="color:#241E21">O: 508.647.9200 </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="color:#241E21">C: 978-204-2559</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="line-height:150%"><a href="https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cmta.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7CMCrowe%40cmta.com%7C0a1dc0c1420e4f3973c108da4e5d2151%7C7bb63ee7a3e14d75b5a56f9549f171a3%7C0%7C0%7C637908459166212813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=AO6qyTPATmScJvdCFQZ2DqnayrywxYNWMhfVbTb8kxM%3D&reserved=0"><span style="color:#241E21">cmta.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><a href="https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FCMTAEngineers%2F&data=05%7C01%7CMCrowe%40cmta.com%7C0a1dc0c1420e4f3973c108da4e5d2151%7C7bb63ee7a3e14d75b5a56f9549f171a3%7C0%7C0%7C637908459166212813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=OeKe551a92hPwkMZjTrN9ZbJfsZH%2Bq3JKG5gq7UbHwY%3D&reserved=0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="35" height="35" style="width:.3645in;height:.3645in" id="x_Picture_x0020_18" src="cid:image002.png@01D8809B.BE2FF5D0"></span></a><a href="https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fcompany%2Fcmta-inc.&data=05%7C01%7CMCrowe%40cmta.com%7C0a1dc0c1420e4f3973c108da4e5d2151%7C7bb63ee7a3e14d75b5a56f9549f171a3%7C0%7C0%7C637908459166212813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=shgvlvV0zXjy6J1fh0%2FSPzNhbwJtHIXIhEh6EzWUvao%3D&reserved=0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="35" height="35" style="width:.3645in;height:.3645in" id="x_Picture_x0020_19" src="cid:image003.png@01D8809B.BE2FF5D0"></span></a><a href="https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FCMTAEngineers&data=05%7C01%7CMCrowe%40cmta.com%7C0a1dc0c1420e4f3973c108da4e5d2151%7C7bb63ee7a3e14d75b5a56f9549f171a3%7C0%7C0%7C637908459166212813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YerW0DXWb%2F1vFoiGk9vMRtCYNkCESj72D2WDjCUZq5E%3D&reserved=0"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="35" height="35" style="width:.3645in;height:.3645in" id="x_Picture_x0020_20" src="cid:image004.png@01D8809B.BE2FF5D0"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><b>From:</b> John Aulbach <<a href="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com">jra_sac@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 14, 2022 1:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Dual Duct with package Cooling<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">A friend of mine asked me about such a system. I looked it up, and lo and behold, eQuest doesn't this as a system.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Is there any equivalent system that can dynamically mimic this?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">John R. Aulbach, PE</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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