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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I agree with the guidance/discussion so far (the Standard is relatively clear in prescribing natural gas, or possibly propane if your AHJ/rating-authority accepts), but I’m
left a little unsatiated… Can we take a step back and discuss the Standard a little further?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">What could be the basis or rationale for 90.1 deciding to diverge from “baseline should match the existing system, as applicable?” Prescribing a service water heating system
on the basis of building occupancy certainly adds extra nuance/complexity, and demonstrably can result in existing/real service hot water baseline systems being represented with potentially unrealistic system/fuel types. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I trust the 90.1 committee made this change with deliberation, and fully expect I am missing some part of the bigger picture, but would like to be educated if anyone has a
sense of why we’re moving in this particular direction.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">For mutual reference, In 90.1-2010 Table G3.1 reads as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><img width="851" height="1010" style="width:8.8645in;height:10.5208in" id="Picture_x0020_8" src="cid:image002.png@01D6869E.F908B320"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">With 90.1-2013, the same passage (highlighted) was revised as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">And here is the referenced table:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46">Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Senior Energy Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:4.5pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Energy and Sustainability Services</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Energy Performance Contracting
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">913 . 564 . 6361<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">785 . 410 . 3317<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"><a href="mailto:nicholas.caton@se.com"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#626469">nicholas.caton@se.com</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive<br>
Suite 204<br>
Lenexa, KS 66219<br>
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</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Equest-users <equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Chapin, Alex N via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 8, 2020 5:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rushi Quest <rushiquest@gmail.com>; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Baseline Service water heating<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:red">[External email: Use caution with links and attachments]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Rushi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The exception to Table G3.1.11.j (Baseline) states that you should use propane at the fuel source in the baseline when natural gas is not available at your site.
In that case, it’s up to you to find a price for propane in your area or use EIA’s propane prices website like
<a href="https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_dcus_nus_w.htm">https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_dcus_nus_w.htm</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Alex Chapin</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> EIT, BEMP, LEED AP BD+C, O+M
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Energy Engineer</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BA0C2F">|
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4880 Sadler Road, Suite 300 </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BA0C2F">|
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Glen Allen, VA 23060
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<a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.masonandhanger.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7CNicholas.Caton%40se.com%7C9c1bbf019e014ece8d0908d853e0bd9f%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C637351572010156163&sdata=HL9l2x%2FZfz2GODC1cXq%2Bm4NqEuCbr7y5cCV%2FSjf5sEg%3D&reserved=0"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#BA0C2F">masonandhanger.com</span></a>
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</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Rushi Quest [<a href="mailto:rushiquest@gmail.com">mailto:rushiquest@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 7, 2020 3:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Baseline Service water heating<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear E-questers,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am working on a hospital building project which uses existing heat pump at site for service water heating.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The issue is arising in modeling baseline hot water system, which as per ASHRAE 90.1-2013 Table G3.1.1-2 is specified as gas storage water heater for hospital building type. The gas utility rates will not be available for the project since
no gas heating system is used at site.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I want to confirm whether identical system as proposed case can be considered in baseline model as the energy cost savings will need to be compared with existing heat pump at site.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks in advance.<o:p></o:p></p>
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