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<p class="MsoNormal">Spoke too soon. The PNNL manual promotes Dual Maximum control for VAV boxes. But it doesn’t apply to the baseline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Christopher R Jones, P.Eng.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">T+ 1 416-644-0252<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img width="60" height="29" style="width:.625in;height:.302in" id="_x0000_i1034" src="cid:image001.png@01D4E400.3111F3A0"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jones, Christopher via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 26, 2019 6:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton@se.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Hourly space temperature after cooling<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree with Nick’s points. I find adjusting the baseline model minimum heating flows takes time. I have many models where zones need a higher minimum flow than 0.4cfm/sf, 30% in 90.1-2010. I also question the use of REVERSE ACTION thermostats
for the baseline VAV box control. I have only come across one building with reverse action VAV boxes.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Christopher R Jones, P.Eng.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">T+ 1 416-644-0252<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img width="60" height="29" style="width:.625in;height:.302in" id="_x0031_cc2331b-d8c3-424e-81de-2b17716d444e.png_x003f_ver_x003d_1495657656000" src="cid:image002.png@01D4E400.3111F3A0"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nicholas Caton via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 26, 2019 12:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Energy Simulation Academy <<a href="mailto:info@simulate.energy">info@simulate.energy</a>>; Integral Mechanical Engineering Designs <<a href="mailto:integralmech@outlook.com">integralmech@outlook.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Hourly space temperature after cooling<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have a training/teaching topic I’ve delivered around the subject of unmet hours… it includes this definition (my technical understanding):<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:red">An unmet hour is reported
<b>when a zone’s hourly temperature diverges from the thermostat setpoint/setback temperature by at least the
<u>throttling range</u> + 1°F</b>. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Further, because this definition in isolation (and the associated reference manual entries on the topic) can lead other astray without further context, I immediately follow this definition with the following:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:red"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:red">A popular misconception is that throttling range is a panacea for resolving unmet hours. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:red"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:red">Tweaking throttling range in isolation however is rarely an effective "treatment" for unmet hours in practice. It does not address any of the most common root causes/resolutions for unmet
hours (to my experience):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:63.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2;vertical-align:middle">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:red"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:red">Inadequate capacities:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:red;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2;vertical-align:middle">
<b><u>airflow</u></b><u><o:p></o:p></u></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:red;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2;vertical-align:middle">
heating<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:red;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2;vertical-align:middle">
cooling<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:red;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2;vertical-align:middle">
Emphasis for <b><u>inadequate airflow</u></b>: Where a model relies heavily upon auto-sizing, airflow by far the most common capacity issue I’ve encountered when troubleshooting.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ul>
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<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:red"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:red">System / conditioning availability (scheduling / night-cycling / lockouts)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:63.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2;vertical-align:middle">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:red"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:red">Assumptions / errors for the inputs concerning the interior & envelope loads being handled by the systems<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:63.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2;vertical-align:middle">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:red"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:red">End-user vs. interface errors in developing/tweaking thermostat schedules within the eQuest interface.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:63.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2;vertical-align:middle">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:red"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:red">Thermostat schedules being automatically assigned from wizards and therefore reporting unmet hours where comfort isn’t truly being measured/maintained in real life (i.e. does anyone really care if a garage
gets warm in the summer?).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This isn’t really a “computational” response in hindsight, but I had this material at-hand to easily share. Hope this helps in any case!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">~Nick<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Equest-users <<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>The Energy Simulation Academy via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 26, 2019 10:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Integral Mechanical Engineering Designs <<a href="mailto:integralmech@outlook.com">integralmech@outlook.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Hourly space temperature after cooling<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Good for you! But now my OCD is triggered.<br>
<br>
To repeat the question if anyone is just looking at this email:<br>
<br>
Does anyone happen to know the computational definition of an unmet hour for eQUEST? Especially as stated: <br>
<i>i.e DOE2 will mark an Unmet hour if a zone is: Outside the throttling range? How many degrees outside range (.1, 1 etc)? Plus Occupied? Plus Coil capacities are exceeded? Plus Any other conditions?<br>
</i><br>
I guess I can dig for it, but it's likely one of you knows this officially,<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
Energy-models.com<br>
Simulate.Energy<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" id="_x0000_i1026" src="https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=aaW5mb0BlbmVyZ3ktbW9kZWxzLmNvbQ%3D%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=025fb109-6038-487b-a071-877f344b5fdb"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Gadugi",sans-serif;color:white">ᐧ</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 10:28 AM Integral Mechanical Engineering Designs via Equest-users <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Hello,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Thank you for all your answers. There have been really helpful, and the problem was that I had 90 °F in the day schedules within the S1 Sys1 (PSZ) Cool SCH (different value as mentioned by Bill).
The solution was to correct the value to 75 °F, and now the unmet hours match with the SS-O report.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Kind Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Paul Caicedo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Mechanical Engineering Consultant<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white"><u><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></u><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">IntegralMECH</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Bishop, Bill <<a href="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> March 25, 2019 7:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Integral Mechanical Engineering Designs; David Eldridge<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Hourly space temperature after cooling</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal">Hi Paul,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal">The <span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">
75 °F input that you shared below for “Indoor Design Temperature” is the DESIGN-COOL-T which is used for sizing calculations (and is optional when using DOE-2.3). The hourly thermostat setpoint is part of the thermostat schedule so you need to look at the day
schedules within the S1 Sys1 (PSZ) Cool Sch.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal">~Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium",sans-serif;color:black">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"><b>From:</b> Equest-users <<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Integral Mechanical Engineering Designs via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 23, 2019 2:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Eldridge <<a href="mailto:DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com" target="_blank">DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Hourly space temperature after cooling<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Hi David,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Thanks for the answer. I don´t think that explain the data because the system is working most of the time during the year, and a note in the SS-O report shows that the
temperature counts are made only for the hours when the fans are on. The cooling schedule matches with the occupancy schedule.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"><img border="0" width="885" height="463" style="width:9.2187in;height:4.8229in" id="gmail-m_1923301982155578604x_Picture_x0020_4" src="cid:image005.png@01D4E400.3111F3A0"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">The set point is 75 °F and the throttle range is 2 °R.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"><img border="0" width="362" height="210" style="width:3.7708in;height:2.1875in" id="gmail-m_1923301982155578604x_Picture_x0020_5" src="cid:image006.png@01D4E400.3111F3A0"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">The BEPS report shows that are 155 unmet hours, but the SS-O report gives a value of at least 2505 (adding from 80-85 and above 85).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Kind Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Paul Caicedo</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Mechanical Engineering Consultant</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><u><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">IntegralMECH</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> David Eldridge <<a href="mailto:DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com" target="_blank">DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> March 22, 2019 9:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Integral Mechanical Engineering Designs<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Hourly space temperatura after cooling</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xxmsonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">That SS-O report should be after cooling (it’s a “system” report), but it may include some hours when the control system is in setback – it’s not only for occupied hours, would that
explain your data?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xxmsonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xxmsonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">There is a separate module for report variables that you can specify to document any number of internal calculations, including one or more space temperatures – it’s been a while since
I set one of those up but if you search this community for “report variables” some instructions should pop up.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xxmsonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xxmsonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">These can then also be exported to excel, or printed in the *.sim report.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xxmsonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xxmsonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">David </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xxmsonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xxmsonormal"><b>From:</b> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Integral Mechanical Engineering Designs via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 22, 2019 8:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Hourly space temperatura after cooling<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Hi all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">If I open the BEPS Building Energy Performance, there are 155 unmet hours. I would like to get the temperature values throughout the year after cooling, but the only related option that I can see is
the SS-O Space Temperature Summary where the temperatures above the set point are much more than the unmet hours. It seems that is the report of the space before cooling.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">How could I get the space temperature after cooling to have relation with the unmet hours?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="gmail-m1923301982155578604xxmsonormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Kind Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Paul Caicedo</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Mechanical Engineering Consultant</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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