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<p>OH! I'm so glad I asked, because from the thread I got the
impression that the mystery load was due to outside air introduced
by the HVAC system! So, your experience should be a warning to
all eQUEST users that the LS-B, LS-D, etc. reports give only the
heat flows from outdoor or indoor sources, and not heat flows from
HVAC operations or the true interzone heat transfer from adjacent
spaces. The former is quite understandable since the HVAC
simulation has not taken place yet, but latter needs a little bit
of explanation. In DOE-2 (underlying engine to eQUEST), the
"Loads" loads are calculated based on the input temperatures for
each space. Since most runs are done using the same space
temperatures, the LS-X reports would show no interzone heat
transfer. The subsequent System simulation solves for the true
zone temperature, so that when zone temperatures are different
between adjacent zones, there would be interzone heat transfer.
Unfortunately, this interzone heat transfer does not appear in any
summary reports, although the hourly values can be obtained
through the HOURLY-REPORT generator.</p>
<p>Joe<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/20/2018 1:19 PM, Chris Hadlock
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAFewGwfvCLkad5DMoYUYxK6erCdDKfKkJW7fzGnf4BqSapKiKA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">right...although I had deleted all child components
for my zone in question, there were interior walls (defined in
adjacent zones) that were exchanging heat transfer with my zone.
The adjacent zone just happened to be an unconditioned parking
garage that was very cold...foolish that I missed it.</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 4:00 PM Joe Huang via
Equest-users <<a
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>And the cause for the mystery load is ?? Don't just
leave us hanging!</p>
<p>Joe<br>
</p>
<div class="gmail-m_-3904346340559647763moz-cite-prefix">On
12/20/2018 12:47 PM, Chris Hadlock via Equest-users wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Thanks to all who responded...the problem has now
been solved. My faith in eQuest remains.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Chris</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 2:33 PM David
Eldridge via Equest-users <<a
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div
class="gmail-m_-3904346340559647763gmail-m_7039130555017084751WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">That
last sentence is the issue – the system is
providing some amount of air including return
and OA to the space, without a heating coil,
meanwhile the thermostat may be expecting 70F
all of the time.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The
issue could be resolved by “upgrading” the
unit to heat, removing/reducing the OA
quantity, or by relaxing or removing the
thermostat schedules depending on what your
goals are for the project.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">David</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">David
S. Eldridge, Jr.</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(36,64,97)">,
P</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">.</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(36,64,97)">E</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">.</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(36,64,97)">,
LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, BEAP, HBDP</span></b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Associate</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:4pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)">Direct:
(847) 316-92</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">24</span><span
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</span><span
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style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
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style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(36,64,97)">Grumman/Butkus
Associates</span></b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:gray">
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style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)">|
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style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
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style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span
style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:gray"><a
href="http://grummanbutkus.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:gray">grummanbutkus.com</span></a></span></u><span
style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:gray"> | <u><a
href="http://grummanbutkus.com/blog"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:gray">Blog</span></a></u> |
<u><a
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style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:gray"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Equest-users
[mailto:<a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Chris Hadlock via
Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 20, 2018 1:05
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] mystery
heating load</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I've had a few responses
requesting the modeling files so I've
attached the INP and PD2 file (weather file
is CWEC\Toronto.bin). The zone in question
is "L0 Elev Lobby S" and I've already
removed all exterior surfaces from this
space (i.e. there are no Child Components).
I've assigned this zone to it's own system
(it's the last system on the air-side tab)
called "Test System". I've already created
the hourly reports where you'll see all of
the underheated hours (which only occur in
the winter). The LS-B report shows no (zero)
htg load. I realize the system is not really
providing any heating to this zone the way
it's setup.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chris</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at
1:26 PM Chris Hadlock <<a
href="mailto:cjhadlock@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">cjhadlock@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I've created a
model using eQuest 3.65 (DOE 2.2)
build 7173 that is of a 20 storey
multi-residential building located
in Toronto, Ontario (Canada). There
is a basement with a elevator lobby
that is an interior space (no
exterior walls). </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My model keeps
telling me I have underheated hours
for this lobby. I'm trying to figure
out why there is a heating load and
I'm stumped. I have removed what I
believe to be all potential sources
of heat loss. I've deleted the
underground floor (which was R-100
anyway), I've deleted the interior
walls (just to be thorough), there
is no infiltration, and I've set the
ventilation to zero. In my mind,
there is no source of heat loss.
I've even added a significant (10
W/ft2) equipment load and yet there
are still underheated hours (I've
even reduced my Tstat setpoint to
60F). </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I've run an
hourly report to help figure out the
loads for both the space ("Sum of
all weighted loads except infil and
latent") and zone ("Load Calc'd
SPACE Sensible load at const temp
(Btu/hr)"). These reports all
indicate a positive load (i.e. net
heat gain) from my lights, plug
loads and occupants. However through
this process I'm also questioning
these reports as the lighting,
people and equipment load being
reported don't exactly align with my
modeled schedules for these
loads....but I've put a pin in that.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regardless, I
have no idea how to figure out what
may be resulting in net heat loss
for this zone. To be thorough, I
checked the elevator lobby on the
ground level and the same thing is
happening. Has anybody seen this
before...any ideas what might be
causing heat loss for a zone with no
ventilation and no walls and no
infiltration? It does seem to be
seasonal (i.e no underheated hours
in the summer) so it has some
connection to weather file but does
not correlate exactly.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you do take
the time to read this, a big thank
you. If you provide the answer,
you'll for sure be on Santa's "nice"
list.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chris </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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