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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Great conversation!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I agree that spandrel panels should be modeled as EXTERIOR-WALL components and not WINDOWs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">My comments/hints that weren’t already mentioned below:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The 1/4in Spandrel Glass material from the library should be entered as the first material in LAYERS (which are ordered
outside to inside for exterior walls).<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The default library only has 1/4in Spandrel Glass but you can make any material layer as thick as you want by changing
the THICKNESS.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Absorptance: The percentage of solar radiation absorbed by the wall is input as ABSORPTANCE. This is a keyword for the
CONSTRUCTION and is shown on the main tab/sheet of the wall construction. I assumed a glass spandrel panel would have a different absorptance than the default value of 0.700. After looking into it, I couldn’t find a good alternative value and it is probably
all over the place depending on the glazing coatings/paints, air spaces and backing materials.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Surface Roughness: The outside air film coefficient for exterior surfaces is a function of the surface roughness and
wind speed. The ROUGHNESS keyword input is also on the main CONSTRUCTION tab/sheet. Glass and smooth painted surfaces have a ROUGHNESS of 6 per the DOE-2 help description. The default is 3.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Emissivity: Infrared (heat) radiation to/from exterior walls is specified by OUTSIDE-EMISS which is a keyword of the
EXTERIOR-WALL (not the CONSTRUCTION). The default value of 0.9 is close to the typical value for glass (0.84).<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I finally understand why they’re called
<i>curtain walls</i>. They are not structural members. They are exterior coverings, as a curtain covers a window.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">~Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium",sans-serif;color:black">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Senior Energy Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:3.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f">
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</v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]><img width="91" height="59" style="width:.9479in;height:.6145in" src="cid:image004.jpg@01D48E36.A4066E10" align="left" hspace="12" alt="Pathfinder-EA-logo-2" v:shapes="Picture_x0020_4"><![endif]><b><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#002060">T:
(585) 698-1956</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">
</span></i></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">F: (585) 325-6005<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">134 South Fitzhugh Street<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Rochester, NY 14608 <img border="0" width="26" height="23" style="width:.2708in;height:.2395in" id="_x0000_i1028" src="cid:image007.png@01D48E11.062D7E60">
</span><i><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#00B0F0">Ask me why Carbon Fee & Dividend may be right for you.</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Equest-users <equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nicholas Caton via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 6, 2018 9:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Eldridge <DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com>; jra_sac@yahoo.com; Paul Diglio <paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net>; equest-users@onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Spandrel Glass<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I’ll toss some extra thoughts/experience into the pile:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">My preferred approach to handling large amounts of spandrel glass is to start by taking advantage of the wizards’ capacity to generate separate “plenum” exterior wall sections
(of height resulting from your ceiling inputs), to produce equivalent area to the spandrel glass on each orientation. Those separate sections are in part a by-product of the intent to distinguish the conditioned space/zone volume relative to the floor-to-floor
height, but we can repurpose them!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I do not create glass on those “plenums” wall sections, but rather just make a new “spandrel” exterior wall construction in detailed mode and use custom user default expressions
to automate assigning “spandrel” vs. “normal” constructions to each exterior surface as a function of their Z coordinate (0 = normal wall, else spandrel construction).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">This can be combined with post-wizard manipulation of interior space/ceiling heights (which do not have to line up with the “seams” separating plenum from normal walls), to
capture cases where the spandrel actually extends below the ceiling line and ensure the conditioned volume is accurate around your perimeters. Be mindful that if the spandrel glass is largely incident on the conditioned volume it may be more appropriate to
move them off the plenum spaces and onto the occupied spaces. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There is an aesthetic “downside” to this approach to consider (according to
<i>some</i> industry professionals I’ve worked with), but if someone *really* wants a pretty 3D model picture that looks like a fishbowl from the likes of eQuest (?), I’ll just add that you can generate some (apparently convincing) “forgery” of extra windows
by mis-using MSPAINT – the duct tape of my graphical tool belt. And yes, I sleep at night just fine, thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">@David: I’m not sure about that library entry either, but I have in the past been convinced myself it was okay to use the simplified window glass definition option and
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">specify a shading coefficient of zero (where SC is the ratio of solar energy transmitted relative to single pane float glass), and<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">specify a U-value appropriate to the degree of insulation (though I’d leave this equivalent to the underlying glass layer(s) if it’s just painted
panels – run into that a couple times). <o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">This modeling approach doesn’t pick up on all of the actual nuances of radiative* emissivity for painted-over windows, but it has for me been good enough for (literally) government
work where there were much bigger problems to focus the energy model’s development around… If anyone has developed further best practices for handling “high-e coatings” applied to mitigating unwanted transmissive solar gains, I am certainly all ears =).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46">Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Regional Energy Engineering Manager<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Energy and Sustainability Services</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Equest-users <<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Eldridge via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 05, 2018 5:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com">jra_sac@yahoo.com</a>; Paul Diglio <<a href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>>;
<a href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Spandrel Glass<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:red">[External email: Use caution with links and attachments]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Paul – to answer your question: painfully? It may not be that bad actually – what’s your base wall type? For a curtain wall that is half spandrel and half vision
glass, make the exterior opaque surface equivalent to the spandrel sections as a defined opaque wall construction, and then add the vision glass to that – if you change the surface constructions in spreadsheet view it may not be that painful after all. The
painful part will be deleting all of the current spandrel sections that are now defined as the base wall.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">JRA – I’m not sure of the purpose of the spandrel glass type in the library, I don’t know if that window object model has the capability to perform as if it were
an opaque surface although this spandrel glass definition may be available to be selected…I’m not sure it would be an accurate choice. I wonder if it is a research entry that isn’t meant for the modeling public. Anyone used it?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">David S. Eldridge, Jr.</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#244061">, P</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">.</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#244061">E</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">.</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#244061">,
LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, BEAP, HBDP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Aulbach via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 05, 2018 5:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Diglio <<a href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>>; Paul Diglio via Equest-users <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>;
<a href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Spandrel Glass<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As I recall there IS a wall component called spandex glass in the Library. See if that solves your need.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">John<o:p></o:p></p>
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from Yahoo Mail on Android</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Roboto;color:#6D00F6">On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 3:33 PM, Paul Diglio via Equest-users<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Roboto;color:#6D00F6"><<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">I have a building with a very large amount of spandrel glass panels, which I modeled as glass since this seemed to be the only way to insert the panels
into the exterior walls.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">I would somehow like to re-assign the spandrel panels as another exterior component so they will be counted as part of the exterior walls in the LV-D
report instead of glass.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Any idea on how this can be done?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Paul Diglio<br>
87 Fairmont Avenue <br>
New Haven, CT 06513 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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